Do you think the compressor is cutting in as opposed to just the circulating pumps? Could be working as a "chiller"
Doesn't get that hot here- just curious.
Torque Pro on the Kona - overview and setup for interested owners
- Thread starter KiwiME
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Doesn't get that hot here- just curious.
FloridaSun
Well-Known Member
I believe that it does, especially here in steamy Florida. I charged again 3 days ago at one of those 50kw chargers in 86 degree F/30 C and battery management came on during the last 5 minutes of charging. You could clearly hear it running.. When I finished charging and drove off, I switched to the screen where it breaks down the energy consumption and for the fraction of a second, battery management showed drawing over 10kw but instantly dropped to 0.6 kw or so. I don't see how just the water pump and fan could pull 10kw. I believe that the AC compressor was running at full blast to cool down the coolant. I don't know if the car actually does that but I don't see how the TMS would pull over 10kw otherwise.. I would like to be able to monitor TMS energy draw while DC fast charging on a 93+ F/34 C degree day.
That would be interesting to find out, might explain slightly higher than expected fast charging costs as well.
FloridaSun
Well-Known Member
For sure.. The problem is that the dash only shows what the car receives but not what it actually uses.. For example, with TMS being off, the Torque Pro numbers on energy draw mirror what the car's dash says.. When TMS is active, the energy draw on Torque Pro shows a lower number than the one on the dash, so you can't really go by the dash numbers to know how much energy actually went to your battery.. That's why it would be fantastic if someone had PIDs for Torque Pro that would show energy use by component. Yesterday, I was charging at my home in the afternoon at 92 degrees F, 33C and TMS came on. I took the opportunity to hook up Torque Pro and my dash showed 7.4 to 7.5kwh while the car's energy draw showed 6.0 kwh. It usually shows 6.9 kwh with the TMS off, so I would assume that the TMS pulled 0.9 kwh but I can't say this for sure as I only get total draw numbers and not component specific.
[QUOTE = "Toolworker, post: 91094, membre: 18528"] Merci - ça marche.
Apparemment, les préférences d'unités ne s'appliquent pas aux PID personnalisés, j'ai donc apporté cette modification pour obtenir MPH:
006_Speedometer_Check, Speed ,, (((VAL {000_Drive Motor Speed 1} * 60) / (7.981 * 1.609))) / 484.4,0,100, mph,
En branchant mon Android sur mon PC Windows, j'ai pu glisser-déposer le fichier. Mais le PC n'affiche pas le dossier .torque même si "show hidden" est sélectionné, j'ai donc dû y déplacer le fichier à l'aide d'une application File Manager. [/ QUOTE]
Apparemment, les préférences d'unités ne s'appliquent pas aux PID personnalisés, j'ai donc apporté cette modification pour obtenir MPH:
006_Speedometer_Check, Speed ,, (((VAL {000_Drive Motor Speed 1} * 60) / (7.981 * 1.609))) / 484.4,0,100, mph,
En branchant mon Android sur mon PC Windows, j'ai pu glisser-déposer le fichier. Mais le PC n'affiche pas le dossier .torque même si "show hidden" est sélectionné, j'ai donc dû y déplacer le fichier à l'aide d'une application File Manager. [/ QUOTE]
hieronymous
Active Member
This produces data, but is incorrect, it under-reads by about 2km/h.
SkookumPete
Well-Known Member
Does anyone know exactly what OpTime (operating time, I presume) encompasses? Mine reads 2340 hr, while the odometer reads 26,161 km. Now I admit that I've spent hours just fiddling with the controls and going nowhere, but there's no way my average speed has been 11 km/hr. Is it possible that OpTime includes charging?
robxb
Active Member
I have noticed a couple of things since the BMS update.
First: It doesn't show Max Power & Max Regen in Torque, or the purpose-built, dash-mounted OBDII device anymore (I assume along with current power and regen...couldn't really look at my phone while driving for obvious reasons).
Second: Total kWh charged has COMPLETELY RESET since the update, which is a huge bummer. Anyone have any idea if there's a way to get this back? I wasn't keeping logs.
Third: As another member pointed out, it tops up the 12v battery multiple times per day, as opposed to once, to avoid all of those 12v batteries dying like many people have experienced.
Anyone have any other observations?
First: It doesn't show Max Power & Max Regen in Torque, or the purpose-built, dash-mounted OBDII device anymore (I assume along with current power and regen...couldn't really look at my phone while driving for obvious reasons).
Second: Total kWh charged has COMPLETELY RESET since the update, which is a huge bummer. Anyone have any idea if there's a way to get this back? I wasn't keeping logs.
Third: As another member pointed out, it tops up the 12v battery multiple times per day, as opposed to once, to avoid all of those 12v batteries dying like many people have experienced.
Anyone have any other observations?
robxb
Active Member
Cool. Sais-tu s'il y a une facon de mesurer le 0-100km/h avec cette info?
Cool. Any idea if there's a way to measure the 0-100km/h with this info?
KiwiME
Well-Known Member
Are you referring to CED and CED? These are the battery's 'odometers' and resetting those is a big deal, IMO.
robxb
Active Member
I am indeed, unfortunately. Unless I somehow managed to drive 12,000kms on only 352kWhs!
It that my total Charge and Discharge is 352 and 358 kWhs, which equates to about 5.5 charges.. so...no, it reset
.I would have also liked to see Max Torque and Max Regen, but those are gone.. Max Regen was useful for analyzing how temperature affected the efficiency of it!
robxb
Active Member
I have a couple of questions for our fellow torque users here. Can you please clarify following please?
1. Why is there Motor RPM 1 and Motor RPM 2? There's just one motor, 201hp, correct?
2. What does Voltage Difference indicate?
3. What is Heater 2, which shows -86C? Anti-freeze temp?
Thanks for any clarification
1. Why is there Motor RPM 1 and Motor RPM 2? There's just one motor, 201hp, correct?
2. What does Voltage Difference indicate?
3. What is Heater 2, which shows -86C? Anti-freeze temp?
Thanks for any clarification
robxb
Active Member
Sorry for the repeat posts, but I figured it was best to do them this way as they are for different things.
Not sure if anyone has shared this tip yet, but I installed DriveSync on my Android Device to automatically upload Torque Pro's log files to Google Drive. You can do one folder for free, or pay for the app to do unlimited folders. One folder is all I need!
Not sure if anyone has shared this tip yet, but I installed DriveSync on my Android Device to automatically upload Torque Pro's log files to Google Drive. You can do one folder for free, or pay for the app to do unlimited folders. One folder is all I need!
hieronymous
Active Member
My CEC and CED have likewise been reset. I haven't had the car out yet to look at Max Torque, Max Regen.I have a couple of questions for our fellow torque users here. Can you please clarify following please?
1. Why is there Motor RPM 1 and Motor RPM 2? There's just one motor, 201hp, correct?
2. What does Voltage Difference indicate?
3. What is Heater 2, which shows -86C? Anti-freeze temp?
Thanks for any clarification
Kona PID's have no Hyundai validity, of course - they are just the result of some enthusiastic owner (probably), doing a little reverse engineering, because (s)he knows how. The labelling reflects what that person thought they were seeing - it may or may not be accurate.
PID sets like these have been available for years for the Prius models, and they contain hundreds of PIDs. Included are many parameters that have multiple PIDs assigned, so that "Motor RPM 1" and "Motor RPM 2" choices reflect that multiple bus addresses were found for the SAME parameter, not that there are 2 motors. Sometimes all the alternatives give the same or different values, sometimes some return nothing. Best to just pick one likely PID if there is a choice, then attempt to independently validate it so it can be useful. Ignore any that return wildly improbable data!
I can't even see a PID labelled Voltage Difference at the moment, but it would likely indicate the variance between Max Voltage and Min Voltage across all cells within the pack..
KiwiME
Well-Known Member
Something I've wanted to determine is how the displayed SoC is related to BMS SoC over a wide range rather than just at the 100% charge often quoted in posts. The values here were measured over a 300 km round trip, blue then red for the return. The associated linear trendlines characterising the data for each leg had a nearly zero offset, so I've configured those features as "zero" in Excel. The resulting lines (in black) match the logged data nearly perfectly, as you can see in the image. This indicates a simple ratio on my Kona of 95%, down to the 30% SoC at the end of my trip. So, whatever ratio you see on your Kona at 100% SoC (displayed) seems also to be applicable at an SoC down to at least 30%, and likely down to 0%. That would imply that there is no "bottom end buffer" at play in the Kona, assuming the SoC BMS covers the entire pack capacity.
It's fair to mention that many of us assume that this ratio will drift towards 1:1 as the battery ages, in order to maintain Hyundai's advertised capacity of 64 kWh.
The other question was if the true battery capacity could be estimated from CED/CEC and SoC. CED (presumably) results from the direct measurement of instantaneous current drain multiplied by the corresponding pack voltage, integrated over time to get kWh. CEC is similar, but based on charging current. Both readings normally accumulate over the EV's life although we know the "BMS update" resets them to zero, for reasons currently unknown. The reason they accumulate is to provide a stable SoC dash reading, unaffected by voltage droop or boost while driving or charging.
The change in net battery energy depleted over a driving event should match the percent loss in SoC multiplied by the total energy represented by that SoC at 100%. Based on measured data we should be able to derive the total battery capacity.
Because battery capacity is based on current drain, to determine the net energy used while driving we have to adjust CED by subtracting CEC (cumulative energy charging), recognising that the battery is occasionally charged during driving due to regen. Charging energy of course suffers small losses due to battery pack resistance before it can re-emerge as useful electrical energy.
So, effectively the net energy = CED - (CEC x 96%), where 96% is the average battery cycle efficiency I've measured on my car.
The data I measured over the same 300 km trip as above and analysed in Excel proved to have an uncomfortably large error between the two legs. The start of the trip was at sea level and the destination at an elevation of 360m, while the road climbs up to a peak of 760m. The drive itself and minor climate loading should not in-theory have an effect on this error. We are just draining the battery by a convenient means, that being driving and staying warm, and logging the resulting numbers.
The most obvious source of error is if the battery efficiency is significantly different on the two legs of the trip due to perhaps higher levels of regen on the return.
Another perhaps more-likely source of error could be the battery temp, which started at 11°C and ended at 22°C. Ambient was 8°C to 11°C.
So, I've averaged the results but I can't suggest that they are accurate. And those results are that is that the true capacity is 67.65 kWh while the useable capacity is 63.85 kWh.
In the image below the trip starts at the lower right and ends at the upper left. The slight discontinuity in the middle is when I drove around the town looking for an appropriate parking spot.
It's fair to mention that many of us assume that this ratio will drift towards 1:1 as the battery ages, in order to maintain Hyundai's advertised capacity of 64 kWh.
The other question was if the true battery capacity could be estimated from CED/CEC and SoC. CED (presumably) results from the direct measurement of instantaneous current drain multiplied by the corresponding pack voltage, integrated over time to get kWh. CEC is similar, but based on charging current. Both readings normally accumulate over the EV's life although we know the "BMS update" resets them to zero, for reasons currently unknown. The reason they accumulate is to provide a stable SoC dash reading, unaffected by voltage droop or boost while driving or charging.
The change in net battery energy depleted over a driving event should match the percent loss in SoC multiplied by the total energy represented by that SoC at 100%. Based on measured data we should be able to derive the total battery capacity.
Because battery capacity is based on current drain, to determine the net energy used while driving we have to adjust CED by subtracting CEC (cumulative energy charging), recognising that the battery is occasionally charged during driving due to regen. Charging energy of course suffers small losses due to battery pack resistance before it can re-emerge as useful electrical energy.
So, effectively the net energy = CED - (CEC x 96%), where 96% is the average battery cycle efficiency I've measured on my car.
The data I measured over the same 300 km trip as above and analysed in Excel proved to have an uncomfortably large error between the two legs. The start of the trip was at sea level and the destination at an elevation of 360m, while the road climbs up to a peak of 760m. The drive itself and minor climate loading should not in-theory have an effect on this error. We are just draining the battery by a convenient means, that being driving and staying warm, and logging the resulting numbers.
The most obvious source of error is if the battery efficiency is significantly different on the two legs of the trip due to perhaps higher levels of regen on the return.
Another perhaps more-likely source of error could be the battery temp, which started at 11°C and ended at 22°C. Ambient was 8°C to 11°C.
So, I've averaged the results but I can't suggest that they are accurate. And those results are that is that the true capacity is 67.65 kWh while the useable capacity is 63.85 kWh.
In the image below the trip starts at the lower right and ends at the upper left. The slight discontinuity in the middle is when I drove around the town looking for an appropriate parking spot.
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FloridaSun
Well-Known Member
Very surprising that there seems to be no bottom end buffer.. I believe that it's a lot worse for the battery to deplete it to zero percent than to charge to 100%. I personally have never gone below 9% SoC on the bottom end.. I've never even gotten to the low charge warning..
