Torque Pro on the Kona - overview and setup for interested owners

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I just did this a couple of days ago - what I couldn't figure out was how to get all the cell voltages displayed without having to add each one individually to the dashboard , and then change the number of decimal places on each one. I even looked at manually editing the layout file but the format wasn't obvious enough.

I ended up not bothering with individual cells, and just used the min/max cell number/voltage, and deviation values.

ALso, is there a quick way to delete all the ICE stuff on the dashboard and remove the unused panes ?

Considering how popular this app is, I'm surprised at how painful the process of setting up a new car is.
 
mikeselectricstuff said:
I just did this a couple of days ago - what I couldn't figure out was how to get all the cell voltages displayed without having to add each one individually to the dashboard , and then change the number of decimal places on each one. I even looked at manually editing the layout file but the format wasn't obvious enough.

I ended up not bothering with individual cells, and just used the min/max cell number/voltage, and deviation values.

ALso, is there a quick way to delete all the ICE stuff on the dashboard and remove the unused panes ?

Considering how popular this app is, I'm surprised at how painful the process of setting up a new car is.
Click to expand...

That's why I like SoulEVSpy instead. It is designed for EVs without a lot of fiddling around with configuration, and it works with all of the Korean EVs.
 
Certainly SoulEVSpy is convenient for quickly evaluating cell balance with the colour-coding.
I haven't yet bought the non-Lite version to try out the data logging and .csv export.
 
mikeselectricstuff said:
... change the number of decimal places on each one. I even looked at manually editing the layout file but the format wasn't obvious enough.
Click to expand...
Here's a Excel spreadsheet that can reformat an existing Torque dashboard.
I've only used it to adapt a dashboard to my phone screen size and preferred layout. However it can also edit decimal places. Eg manually edit column Q on sheet '4 build new'
http://excelobscura.blogspot.com/2020/02/torque-dashboard-formatter.html
 
mikeselectricstuff said:
I just did this a couple of days ago - what I couldn't figure out was how to get all the cell voltages displayed without having to add each one individually to the dashboard , and then change the number of decimal places on each one. I even looked at manually editing the layout file but the format wasn't obvious enough.

I ended up not bothering with individual cells, and just used the min/max cell number/voltage, and deviation values.

ALso, is there a quick way to delete all the ICE stuff on the dashboard and remove the unused panes ?

Considering how popular this app is, I'm surprised at how painful the process of setting up a new car is.
Click to expand...
No group pid commands sadly - one action at a time. Min/max voltage points to any potential problem anyway.
The ICE stuff always arrives with a new profile, one at a time deletion..
General Prefs allows a choice of number of panes, 1, 3, 5 etc. So start with 1, add more if needed, minimises deletions (more bring default ICE stuff though)...
 
robxb said:
I have noticed a couple of things since the BMS update.

First: It doesn't show Max Power & Max Regen in Torque, or the purpose-built, dash-mounted OBDII device anymore (I assume along with current power and regen...couldn't really look at my phone while driving for obvious reasons).

Second: Total kWh charged has COMPLETELY RESET since the update, which is a huge bummer. Anyone have any idea if there's a way to get this back? I wasn't keeping logs.

Third: As another member pointed out, it tops up the 12v battery multiple times per day, as opposed to once, to avoid all of those 12v batteries dying like many people have experienced.

Anyone have any other observations?
Click to expand...
Max Power & Max Regen are still available but you need to update the PID and the bytes in the Torque Pro. Thoses values haves always been available on 2 different PIDs: 220101 and 220105. The values on 220101 have been replaced by something else with the BMS software update but they are stiil available on 220105. For the Max Power, change to PID 220105 and replace bytes f & g for q & r. For Max Regen, change to PID 220105 and replace bytes h & i for s & t
 

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KiwiME said:
Well, let's get started from the beginning. Ignore this if you're already running TP with the correct configuration for the Kona. Some of you may know these steps far better than myself so feel free to correct me if I've made a mistake.

A) Installing the PID files for the Kona
After installing the app on your Android device, go to the Github site below and download the two .csv (comma separated variables) files 003 and 004. These contain lists of sensor instructions called "PIDs". I actually joined them together first in Excel but that's unnecessary.

https://github.com/JejuSoul/OBD-PIDs-for-HKMC-EVs/tree/master/Hyundai Kona EV & Kia Niro EV/extendedpids

Use Samsung's My Files app or similar to move the PIDs into the relevant folder, see image. You will need to enable 'show hidden files' in the file manager's settings. Ignore that the file names 003... and 004... are different than mine.

View attachment 6238

There are more detailed but slightly outdated instructions here if needed: https://jejusoul.github.io/OBD-PIDs-for-HKMC-EVs/

B) Connecting the Android device to the Bluetooth OBD2 dongle
This is done in Android settings rather than TP. Plug the dongle in, switch on the car and pair the device to your Android device. Normally there is a code, typically 1234.
As a note, I've found that if the same Android device is also paired to the car for Bluetooth audio and/or Android Auto, TP will confuse the two Bluetooth devices and won't connect until the incorrect one is deleted. There may be workarounds, post if you know what to do.

C) Configuring TP

In TP, tap the 'gear' at the lower left main menu to enter the configuration. Open Settings, tap OBD2 Adapter Settings, select the OBD2 dongle.
Back up to "Settings" again:
a) Select "Manage extra PIDs/Sensors"
b) tap the three dots at the upper right, select "Add predefined set", select the file names of the PID lists to add both, 003... and 004...

D) Building your dashboard

Note the Realtime data button in the main TP menu. Use this to build dashboards even if the dongle is not active or within range. My phone is a bit slow and while TP is 'searching for a Bluetooth device', it's not very responsive to menu selections. If you find the button unresponsive, keep trying, it will eventually work.

Dashboard gauges are added one at a time to the current dashboard. Noting the row of tiny dots near the home button, you can have numerous dashboards but only the current one's gauges are actively polled (as best as I understand). Sweep the display to view each dashboard. At most, you might want to have one for driving, one for AC charging, another for DC.

Long-tap any blank dashboard to add a gauge. I prefer the 'digital' display and 'small' size, but it's your choice. Select the relevant sensor to monitor. In some cases there are more decimal places available than the PID is set to display by default. You can adjust those specifically for any gauge by long-tapping, display configuration, number of decimal places, uncheck 'use default' and enter a number.

View attachment 6239

Primarily for the applications of charging and waypoint-only data collection while driving, I would suggest adding:
000_Battery Heater 1 Temperature
000_Battery Max Temperature
000_Battery Min Temperature
000_Battery Power (misleadingly named Energy Draw on the gauge) (change to 1, 2 or 3 decimal places)
000_Cumulative Energy Charged (change to 1 decimal place)
000_Cumulative Energy Discharged (change to 1 decimal place)
000_State of Charge BMS
000_State of Charge Display
000_State of Health

E) First uses of TP in the car
I don't think there is any issue plugging and unplugging the dongle at any time, however TP seems to only connect for me when the Kona is 'on' even though continues to work after it's switched 'off'.
TP should find the dongle within a few seconds and stop flashing. If it doesn't, you might find there is more than one Bluetooth device in the Android settings list. I've had to delete the unwanted device to convince TP to find the OBD2 dongle.

The best initial uses during trips are to collect SoC (both), CEC and CED numbers at waypoints, combined with the odometer and geographic location (as a reference). Write the six items down or take a photo of the values. Note CEC and CED must have the one decimal place to be useful, I'll explain why later.

For charging you can initally monitor 'Energy Draw' (actually DC discharge power) until we can cover charging profiles.
Just hit 'like'' when you're ready to continue...or comment as needed.
Click to expand...
 
I have a EV kona ultimate 2020 I replaced Veepeak VP11 and all my temperature read i C not F and I do not now how to change. Pls I live i New York Help 'Thank You I appreciate ,Janusz Grabon
 
There was a question on FB recently about the definition of a charge/discharge cycle. As most of us know it's defined as a charge and discharge cycle of an energy quantity equal to the rated capacity. Wiki defines it as "... the process of complete charging and discharging". Added to that, a comment from Apple Inc. says: "... a charge cycle means using all the battery's capacity, but not necessarily by discharging it from 100% to 0%...".

So, completing a "cycle" doesn't have to happen from zero to 100% and 100% to zero in one shot. An accumulation of multiple charging and discharging events equalling the rated capacity is still a cycle, as there is nothing implicit as to over what range of SoC those events occur.

When we look at an Li-ion 16850 cell life graph (see below), the lines represent cycles between a number of fixed SoC values aside from the default of zero and 100%, eg. 25 to 75%. Those are plotted against "DST cycles", where they mean 100% cycles. So, the X-values on the 25 to 75 line are the cycle numbers normalised to a defined 100% cycle, i.e. half of that. If the cell life data for 25 to 75 indicates 3,000 "cycles" are available from a particular cell sample at a particular deterioration level (say 90%) then that actually means 6,000 cycles can be acquired when only going using it between 25 and 75%.

We already generally understand as owners that avoiding SoC extremes "can" increase the useful life of the traction battery. "Can" is just being scientifically-conservative or non-committal, I would suggest that the data shows that it most certainly will.

Obviously when you are driving the Kona it's continually discharging and (in much smaller amounts) charging (regen or 'recuperation'). That activity is depreciating the battery life and that is one of the reasons why the BMS records the four data values with titles that start with "Cumulative ...".

There are two primary values measured from the precision current shunt inside the traction battery, one for "cumulative charge current" (CCC) and one for "cumulative discharge current" (CDC). When matched up with the pack voltage at the time of measurement the related values "cumulative energy charge" (CEC) and "cumulative energy discharge" (CED) can be calculated. These numbers will be continually updated in the BMS's memory whenever the car is fully awake, just like odometers. Torque Pro just reads them straight off the BMS and puts them in readable, decimal kWh form.

(In an earlier post in this thread I described a theoretical way that SoC can be calculated from the CEC and CED at any time, provided that the SoC at factory initialisation is known.)

While answering the FB question I realised that you can calculate how many 100% cycles your battery has endured simply by dividing the average of CEC and CED by 64 (kWh). Since these values become much the same over many cycles, you could also make an estimate from either one instead.

Unfortunately both BMS updates zeroed-out all these valuable numbers, but if you happen to have the values recorded before the update(s) you can calculate the cycles from when the car was new by adding them up.

In my case I have data to show that I've used 44 cycles before and 1 cycle subsequent to the updates (in my case all updates were applied 2 weeks ago), so I've used 45 cycles off the battery life at 16,600 km. That number BTW, is related to the efficiency rating so many of us in mild climates would have similar numbers. Those in very cold climates could be as much as double.

If I had charged and driven the car from 100% to zero over those kms I could make a fair assumption that my battery would only be useful for the shortest typical life of a Li-ion battery, perhaps only 400 cycles. If I had confined my usage to say 30 to 70% then I could also fairly assume that I might be able to rely on a much longer life, perhaps 3,000 100% cycles per the graph below.

I'll leave it up to the reader to grab a calculator and figure out how far I could drive in those two scenarios. As a clue if needed, it's (400/45) x 16,600 km and (3,000/45) x 16,600 km. Now, obviously there are other major contributors to battery deterioration to consider, mostly time and temperature, but also frequency of rapid charging to some degree.

Still, these numbers put our SoC considerations in perspective.

DST-cycles-web2 2.webp
This annotated graphic for a single 16850 cell was created from the original copied from batteryuniversity.com
 
KiwiME said:
There was a question on FB recently about the definition of a charge/discharge cycle. As most of us know it's defined as a charge and discharge cycle of an energy quantity equal to the rated capacity. Wiki defines it as "... the process of complete charging and discharging". Added to that, a comment from Apple Inc. says: "... a charge cycle means using all the battery's capacity, but not necessarily by discharging it from 100% to 0%...".

So, completing a "cycle" doesn't have to happen from zero to 100% and 100% to zero in one shot. An accumulation of multiple charging and discharging events equalling the rated capacity is still a cycle, as there is nothing implicit as to over what range of SoC those events occur.

When we look at an Li-ion 16850 cell life graph (see below), the lines represent cycles between a number of fixed SoC values aside from the default of zero and 100%, eg. 25 to 75%. Those are plotted against "DST cycles", where they mean 100% cycles. So, the X-values on the 25 to 75 line are the cycle numbers normalised to a defined 100% cycle, i.e. half of that. If the cell life data for 25 to 75 indicates 3,000 "cycles" are available from a particular cell sample at a particular deterioration level (say 90%) then that actually means 6,000 cycles can be acquired when only going using it between 25 and 75%.

We already generally understand as owners that avoiding SoC extremes "can" increase the useful life of the traction battery. "Can" is just being scientifically-conservative or non-committal, I would suggest that the data shows that it most certainly will.

Obviously when you are driving the Kona it's continually discharging and (in much smaller amounts) charging (regen or 'recuperation'). That activity is depreciating the battery life and that is one of the reasons why the BMS records the four data values with titles that start with "Cumulative ...".

There are two primary values measured from the precision current shunt inside the traction battery, one for "cumulative charge current" (CCC) and one for "cumulative discharge current" (CDC). When matched up with the pack voltage at the time of measurement the related values "cumulative energy charge" (CEC) and "cumulative energy discharge" (CED) can be calculated. These numbers will be continually updated in the BMS's memory whenever the car is fully awake, just like odometers. Torque Pro just reads them straight off the BMS and puts them in readable, decimal kWh form.

(In an earlier post in this thread I described a theoretical way that SoC can be calculated from the CEC and CED at any time, provided that the SoC at factory initialisation is known.)

While answering the FB question I realised that you can calculate how many 100% cycles your battery has endured simply by dividing the average of CEC and CED by 64 (kWh). Since these values become much the same over many cycles, you could also make an estimate from either one instead.

Unfortunately both BMS updates zeroed-out all these valuable numbers, but if you happen to have the values recorded before the update(s) you can calculate the cycles from when the car was new by adding them up.

In my case I have data to show that I've used 44 cycles before and 1 cycle subsequent to the updates (in my case all updates were applied 2 weeks ago), so I've used 45 cycles off the battery life at 16,600 km. That number BTW, is related to the efficiency rating so many of us in mild climates would have similar numbers. Those in very cold climates could be as much as double.

If I had charged and driven the car from 100% to zero over those kms I could make a fair assumption that my battery would only be useful for the shortest typical life of a Li-ion battery, perhaps only 400 cycles. If I had confined my usage to say 30 to 70% then I could also fairly assume that I might be able to rely on a much longer life, perhaps 3,000 100% cycles per the graph below.

I'll leave it up to the reader to grab a calculator and figure out how far I could drive in those two scenarios. As a clue if needed, it's (400/45) x 16,600 km and (3,000/45) x 16,600 km. Now, obviously there are other major contributors to battery deterioration to consider, mostly time and temperature, but also frequency of rapid charging to some degree.

Still, these numbers put our SoC considerations in perspective.

View attachment 10301
This annotated graphic for a single 16850 cell was created from the original copied from batteryuniversity.com
Click to expand...
I have also been keeping track of CEC and CED numbers before and after updates and for the sake of another data point with several months in Canadian cold and it looks like I'm at 64 charge cycles with approximately 23500 km on the clock. This would represent a 2% degradation based on a 3000 charge life cycle.
 
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