Cash Traylor
Well-Known Member
A long time ago, in a Thread far far away…
Well, not that far – it is here: https://www.insideevsforum.com/community/index.php?threads/audio-upgrade-for-clarity.2221/page-3
First, this is a TMI post – please, only read this if you have imbibed something sufficient to bring your level of tolerance of the mundane to a degree you would not be annoyed in watching children's Saturday morning cartoons the entire day (now, not 30 years ago)…. You have been warned! Michener would be proud of the length of this post, so again, you cannot complain if you read it to the end – I will not refund the time lost on your life clock! And my Clarity's Tardis is not available for rent, so you can go back in time to before reading this – that’s a paradox in the making!
Why am I starting a new thread? Well, the original discussion got lengthy (irony), and I wanted to put this somewhere with a starting point, and there are a lot of very smart people here, and they my have additional insight (pun) that whether actionable or not would make me smarter down the road… I'm also traveling for work - stuck in a hotel due to bad weather...
Ok, I left off my audio upgrade thread with disconnecting the ANC module in my 2018 Clarity PHEV due to “booming” sounds coming from the amplified sub when the ICE “initially” turned on, per power cycle, to the extent I thought I was at an IASCA competition. No, I know this is not a Car Audio Installer’s forum, and I fully acknowledge that if it were not for “Clarity Honda-isms” this would be in the wrong place on the interwebs. However hang with me, my upgraded system sounds good, on par with most premium factory systems and I have no regrets with the ~$500 upgrade. I know that others have gone WAY beyond me by installing full signal processors, dedicated amplifiers, and very high end components, and I am truly and honestly envious of those systems. If my kids were grown and out of the house, I would have likely done the same. I may still, just have to wait until the wife wants new hardwood floors or something to bargain with… @CyberDyneSystems did a beautiful system install, and I LOVE THE REFERENCE TO YOYODYNE (please see my Infinite Improbability Drive and Flux Capacitor upgrades to my Clarity mentioned elsewhere) pure renaissance my friend, Kentucky too with the Dilithium upgrade to his OEM Lithium Ion HV battery as well.
So, back to this post… I have been searching for a way (OCD/ADHD) to reintegrate the OEM Active Noise Cancellation (ANC) system in the Clarity. Spoiler alert – it isn’t worth it. I would bet most that if you unplugged it, with the factory system, and drove around you likely would not notice it gone (as long as you didn’t have confirmation bias blinding you). In most Honda products (my Acura as well) the ANC was a nice feature. The Clarity is just toooo quiet, and unless you are specifically talking about dampening the ICE, then it appears to do very little for ambient noise (or at least in the case of my car, who knows maybe mine was defective from the start). I still stand by my original assertion from the earlier thread that a good pair for touring tires with lower noise footprints will do more for ambient drive “rumble” than any ANC…
So Cash, why this thread? Well, I thought I would pass along some info learned in the process and attach those good old documents that some will find interesting. I have had my car apart more than most, and have learned a bit. I really like this car, it is well designed and put together to be serviceable.
I have dug through the Honda Tech subscription site and was blown away with a “diagnostic” post for Customers reporting a “BOOM BOOM while driving” and the guidance to technicians for this problem. Seems the first task is to go through and check for electrical issues around the ANC. In my original upgrade thread I mentioned that I planned to later go back and use maybe a PIC chip or other logic solution to remove the ”ICE START” notification from the ANC CAN bus node, as it was obvious to me this was a digital trigger causing the “BOOM” and not the ANC passive microphone reacting to something (since it only happened on the initial ICE start, not subsequent, and only once per power cycle of the car).
Yep, I bet you are regretting reading this far….
So, I decided that messing with all this on a car that is still under warranty (extended thank you), *Ken Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act wasn’t worth it. However, I am not that smart – I had to make sure there were no lost gains first. So I decided to re-wire my ANC system (see attached docs) so that I could selectively activate the ANC or the subwoofer, and also remove it entirely and “subjectively” and “objectively” compare the results (ok, honestly the objective portion was limited to what the software from https://studiosixdigital.com/ could do via my phone/ipad). I sold my IASCA RTA and SPL meters a long time ago and my ears are nowhere near “reference” anymore. Either way, I came to the conclusion that I could not subjectively tell a difference with the ANC module in the system in any “real world” driving situation. Ads say that the ANC achieves a 10 dB reduction in noise around and below 100 hz, if so – it is for drivers likely other than those in the market for this vehicle (sad face).
So, pin 3 (green) on the ANC module is selective power. This is basically battery buss voltage (would follow the battery voltage rail) but it is not “switched” in that it has about ~400 microfarads on it in filtering. Since I have no idea the spec on this voltage output, I chose later to not treat it as a “remote amp” turn on line common in aftermarket systems. I used a SPDT switch to selectively turn on either the amplified sub (via remote turn on input) or close a relay to pass the factory receiver SWD+B line voltage to the ANC module. This was in my opinion the safest option and invisible when engaged via the scan tool or built in diagnostics. This output is used in the premium audio system that has a factory 540 watt amp and 12 speakers with sub to apparently activate that amp. However there is a lot going on in that system over SPDIF and an RS485 connection that I can't see since I don't own one. I personally think Honda should have made this premium system an option for the Touring PHEV trim, but that is just me being lazy, and I also admit they had reasons (weight).
Now, the punch line here is amazing...to me at least. When I reconnected my ANC (for the first time after removing it post sound system install) I could not replicate the earlier "BOOM BOOM" problem (yes, sub was on). Tried everything but no go, so I am left with the possibility there was an original bad connection to the ANC that I inadvertently fixed while rewiring the connector... ugh, hate it when things fix themselves...
So, can you install an aftermarket system with the ANC enabled, maybe - would you, likely not. However, the ANC in our specific vehicle seems mostly unneeded. In fact, if you leave the factory system installed, remove the ANC, hack your headunit so you can flat the OEM's audio DSP profile, and install viper4android (final puzzle piece to my system that I really like), you get a completely different sound system.
Anyone who has gone the HondaHack route, but NOT replaced their OEM audio system? I would personally be interested in your thoughts on the DSP/Viper solution, with ANC removed or not, sound quality (assuming you are even dissatisfied with the OEM Clarity system to begin with as I was). I cannot go back to the factory speakers to test, but I would bet this would be an amazing bang for the buck at $10/$25 (HH basic or pro). At most I think that this last software part is sufficient to skip installing a digital sound processor in any audio upgrade involving only an amped sub and/or primary driver upgrades without dedicated all speaker amplifiers (like mentioned above).
I have attached many documents below that I used in this saga. Even if this long winded post is useless to 99% of those out there, maybe these docs will be "nice to have" in your DIY folder of interesting tidbits.
My condolences to you for reading this,
Cash
Well, not that far – it is here: https://www.insideevsforum.com/community/index.php?threads/audio-upgrade-for-clarity.2221/page-3
First, this is a TMI post – please, only read this if you have imbibed something sufficient to bring your level of tolerance of the mundane to a degree you would not be annoyed in watching children's Saturday morning cartoons the entire day (now, not 30 years ago)…. You have been warned! Michener would be proud of the length of this post, so again, you cannot complain if you read it to the end – I will not refund the time lost on your life clock! And my Clarity's Tardis is not available for rent, so you can go back in time to before reading this – that’s a paradox in the making!
Why am I starting a new thread? Well, the original discussion got lengthy (irony), and I wanted to put this somewhere with a starting point, and there are a lot of very smart people here, and they my have additional insight (pun) that whether actionable or not would make me smarter down the road… I'm also traveling for work - stuck in a hotel due to bad weather...
Ok, I left off my audio upgrade thread with disconnecting the ANC module in my 2018 Clarity PHEV due to “booming” sounds coming from the amplified sub when the ICE “initially” turned on, per power cycle, to the extent I thought I was at an IASCA competition. No, I know this is not a Car Audio Installer’s forum, and I fully acknowledge that if it were not for “Clarity Honda-isms” this would be in the wrong place on the interwebs. However hang with me, my upgraded system sounds good, on par with most premium factory systems and I have no regrets with the ~$500 upgrade. I know that others have gone WAY beyond me by installing full signal processors, dedicated amplifiers, and very high end components, and I am truly and honestly envious of those systems. If my kids were grown and out of the house, I would have likely done the same. I may still, just have to wait until the wife wants new hardwood floors or something to bargain with… @CyberDyneSystems did a beautiful system install, and I LOVE THE REFERENCE TO YOYODYNE (please see my Infinite Improbability Drive and Flux Capacitor upgrades to my Clarity mentioned elsewhere) pure renaissance my friend, Kentucky too with the Dilithium upgrade to his OEM Lithium Ion HV battery as well.
So, back to this post… I have been searching for a way (OCD/ADHD) to reintegrate the OEM Active Noise Cancellation (ANC) system in the Clarity. Spoiler alert – it isn’t worth it. I would bet most that if you unplugged it, with the factory system, and drove around you likely would not notice it gone (as long as you didn’t have confirmation bias blinding you). In most Honda products (my Acura as well) the ANC was a nice feature. The Clarity is just toooo quiet, and unless you are specifically talking about dampening the ICE, then it appears to do very little for ambient noise (or at least in the case of my car, who knows maybe mine was defective from the start). I still stand by my original assertion from the earlier thread that a good pair for touring tires with lower noise footprints will do more for ambient drive “rumble” than any ANC…
So Cash, why this thread? Well, I thought I would pass along some info learned in the process and attach those good old documents that some will find interesting. I have had my car apart more than most, and have learned a bit. I really like this car, it is well designed and put together to be serviceable.
I have dug through the Honda Tech subscription site and was blown away with a “diagnostic” post for Customers reporting a “BOOM BOOM while driving” and the guidance to technicians for this problem. Seems the first task is to go through and check for electrical issues around the ANC. In my original upgrade thread I mentioned that I planned to later go back and use maybe a PIC chip or other logic solution to remove the ”ICE START” notification from the ANC CAN bus node, as it was obvious to me this was a digital trigger causing the “BOOM” and not the ANC passive microphone reacting to something (since it only happened on the initial ICE start, not subsequent, and only once per power cycle of the car).
Yep, I bet you are regretting reading this far….
So, I decided that messing with all this on a car that is still under warranty (extended thank you), *Ken Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act wasn’t worth it. However, I am not that smart – I had to make sure there were no lost gains first. So I decided to re-wire my ANC system (see attached docs) so that I could selectively activate the ANC or the subwoofer, and also remove it entirely and “subjectively” and “objectively” compare the results (ok, honestly the objective portion was limited to what the software from https://studiosixdigital.com/ could do via my phone/ipad). I sold my IASCA RTA and SPL meters a long time ago and my ears are nowhere near “reference” anymore. Either way, I came to the conclusion that I could not subjectively tell a difference with the ANC module in the system in any “real world” driving situation. Ads say that the ANC achieves a 10 dB reduction in noise around and below 100 hz, if so – it is for drivers likely other than those in the market for this vehicle (sad face).
So, pin 3 (green) on the ANC module is selective power. This is basically battery buss voltage (would follow the battery voltage rail) but it is not “switched” in that it has about ~400 microfarads on it in filtering. Since I have no idea the spec on this voltage output, I chose later to not treat it as a “remote amp” turn on line common in aftermarket systems. I used a SPDT switch to selectively turn on either the amplified sub (via remote turn on input) or close a relay to pass the factory receiver SWD+B line voltage to the ANC module. This was in my opinion the safest option and invisible when engaged via the scan tool or built in diagnostics. This output is used in the premium audio system that has a factory 540 watt amp and 12 speakers with sub to apparently activate that amp. However there is a lot going on in that system over SPDIF and an RS485 connection that I can't see since I don't own one. I personally think Honda should have made this premium system an option for the Touring PHEV trim, but that is just me being lazy, and I also admit they had reasons (weight).
Now, the punch line here is amazing...to me at least. When I reconnected my ANC (for the first time after removing it post sound system install) I could not replicate the earlier "BOOM BOOM" problem (yes, sub was on). Tried everything but no go, so I am left with the possibility there was an original bad connection to the ANC that I inadvertently fixed while rewiring the connector... ugh, hate it when things fix themselves...
So, can you install an aftermarket system with the ANC enabled, maybe - would you, likely not. However, the ANC in our specific vehicle seems mostly unneeded. In fact, if you leave the factory system installed, remove the ANC, hack your headunit so you can flat the OEM's audio DSP profile, and install viper4android (final puzzle piece to my system that I really like), you get a completely different sound system.
Anyone who has gone the HondaHack route, but NOT replaced their OEM audio system? I would personally be interested in your thoughts on the DSP/Viper solution, with ANC removed or not, sound quality (assuming you are even dissatisfied with the OEM Clarity system to begin with as I was). I cannot go back to the factory speakers to test, but I would bet this would be an amazing bang for the buck at $10/$25 (HH basic or pro). At most I think that this last software part is sufficient to skip installing a digital sound processor in any audio upgrade involving only an amped sub and/or primary driver upgrades without dedicated all speaker amplifiers (like mentioned above).
I have attached many documents below that I used in this saga. Even if this long winded post is useless to 99% of those out there, maybe these docs will be "nice to have" in your DIY folder of interesting tidbits.
My condolences to you for reading this,
Cash
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Seriously, this has been truly educational!
