I’m discussing SuperChargers, the utility that Tesla owners PAY for in the purchase price. So yes, if you found a way to circumvent the system and use it for free, you bet us Tesla owners would be mad. To me it’s nothing short of taking something you didn’t pay for. If your only thought is that this somehow demonstrates ‘greed’ or ‘selfishness’ on the part of Tesla owners, then you just don’t get it and nothing I can do will explain the concept of ethics to you.
Tesla to J1772 adapter
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Pushmi-Pullyu
Well-Known Member
Why would you post something so hostile and anti-social in what ought to be a calm discussion of facts and viewpoints? Please chill out and take a stress tab, or else take a break from posting about this subject until you calm down.
Reasonable people can and do disagree on who should get priority of access to public EV chargers... altho whether or not Tesla Destination Chargers are actually "public" is certainly debatable, since such chargers are installed on private property for the benefit of the property owner.
There's no need to get upset and start using foul language when discussing this issue.
Pushmi-Pullyu
Well-Known Member
I certainly wasn't suggesting any such thing. Regarding non-Tesla cars, I was talking only about charging at Tesla Destination Chargers, not ever at Superchargers. I was quite careful to separate the two situations in my comments; please read them more carefully.
And perhaps Lessismore thought you were talking about Tesla Destination Chargers when you were talking only about Superchargers. Perhaps a general lack of clear communication on this subject has contributed to an inappropriate level of acrimony.
* * * * *
Charging a non-Tesla car at a Tesla Supercharger would be a formidable challenge. A hacker would have to figure out how to "spoof" the Supercharger's software into identifying the car as a Tesla car when it wasn't. That means he would have to copy one of the unique IDs that Tesla uses to identify individual cars. And even if successful, that would be quite dangerous, because then the Supercharger would be delivering a level of power intended for a Tesla car... which might well overload the circuitry or the battery cells in lesser EVs!
I think it's safe to conclude that non-Tesla cars stealing energy at Tesla Superchargers is at least very rare, and possibly has never happened.
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Claritydfw
Member
I was discussing destination chargers where the property owners pay for the power not Tesla and how some Tesla owners believe they are only for them and nobody else.
If someone found a way to tap into a super charger with a non Tesla they would no know who to bill and that would be stealing.
petteyg359
Well-Known Member
That point probably needs to be reiterated. Tesla reimburses the owner for the installation of the chargers. They do NOT pay for the power afterwards. Consider that installation as marketing/advertising budget. Nobody says I can't watch a TV show that was paid for by Whataburger and Walmart ads if I eat at Taco Bell and shop at Target instead; nobody should be telling non-Tesla cars not to charge at Tesla-ad chargers.
Pushmi-Pullyu
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately, I think you're right. I hope that in most cases, it's just ignorance. Tesla car owners have, rightfully, gotten used to the idea that they have exclusive access to Tesla Superchargers, and that nobody else should be using them.
So when they see the "Tesla" logo on a Destination Charger, perhaps they think it's just like a Supercharger only lower powered, so they think that only Tesla cars should be using those.
Better signage at Tesla Destination Chargers would be appropriate; signs clearly stating that the Destination Charger is for use of any and all electric cars capable of hooking up, subject to approval from the property owner.
Tesla never intended Destination Chargers to be for the exclusive use of Tesla car owners. As Claritydfw already pointed out in this discussion: If Tesla intended for only Tesla cars to use Destination Chargers, then they could easily have used software to identify Tesla cars and block other cars from charging there. I think an even stronger indication is Tesla installing Clipper Creek chargers with a J1772 plug at the same locations; chargers which Tesla cars cannot use without an adapter. Very clearly Tesla intends for those to be used by non-Tesla cars.
As I said, I think in most cases it's just ignorance of the significant difference between Tesla Superchargers and Tesla Destination Chargers. But unfortunately, get a group of any 100 people together, and there are bound to be one or two a-holes in the group.
Even among Tesla car owners. (◣_◢)
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Yes, we may have been talking about two different charging scenarios. Of course by no means would that have justified Lessismore’s hostile attitude.
Agreed.
lessismore
Member
case settled? let's don't bring ethics into this as if anyone has a moral authority to judge. I don't use Tesla charger, and I don't think it's anything wrong for Clarity or other EV users to use an adapter to tap into public available Tesla charging port IF the facility owner is OK with such use. If they don't agree, I would expect the owner to post a note telling people don't do that. it's really not up to Tesla owner to feel entitled. I don't own a Tesla, and I have nothing against Tesla owner. I am just put off by the sense of entitlement and self righteous moral high ground to lecture others (this one goes to you Pushmi)
have fun with your public charging
have fun with your public charging
lessismore
Member
is this still absurd? please go back and read Claritydfw's post, #14.This is absolutely absurd. A Tesla does NOT get to use all charging stations. Get a grip and consider the fact that Tesla owners PAY for the privilege of using Tesla chargers. You seem to harbor quite a bit of Tesla resentment.
lessismore
Member
so in conclusion this scenario does not apply. Clearly the OP was talking about a commercially available connector to owners of J1772 connector PHEVs. I am not sure how this piece of information is relevant for the discussion. You're quite knowledgeable, I give you that for sure.
Pushmi-Pullyu
Well-Known Member
Wrong. Clearly you're not making any attempt to actually understand the discussion here about the differences between Tesla Superchargers and Tesla Destination Chargers.
If you did, then perhaps you wouldn't repeatedly make comments based on an ignorance of the subject; comments in which you come across as a Grade-A Jerk.
Since you're clearly not interested in either learning or meaningful discussion, then please leave this forum to those of us who are.
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Robert_Alabama
Well-Known Member
I am going to try to be a peacemaker. Not my usual role, but I'll try. The TeslaTap (for a measly $250) will allow J1772 car owners to charge at the Destination chargers. This is probably a good investment if you really need to use a Destination charger for your J1772 car on a regular basis or if you already own a Tesla and have a Destination charger at home. I stand by my position that I hate to take up any charger if a battery only vehicle needs it. So if I was using a TeslaTap for a PHEV (and there were no other empty chargers available) and a Tesla drove up needing to charge, I would want to at least offer to move and let them have it. Those guys don't have the gasoline backup option. It's kind of like treat others like I would want to be treated. I don't think anybody has said anything that can't be forgiven, so I don't want to push anyone out. To quote Forrest Gump, "That's all I got to say about that."
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Pushmi-Pullyu
Well-Known Member
This appears to me -- just my opinion -- to be the most reasonable position.
But I've seen pretty much the opposite position argued: That the car with the smallest battery pack should have priority, because that would run out of "juice" in the battery pack soonest... even if it's a PHEV.
Mind you, I'm not saying that I think that's a good argument... but I've seen it made. The EV community doesn't seem to have settled on a consensus for "charging etiquette". I have seen various charging etiquette guides published, but I haven't seen any one that appeared to be treated as authoritative.
KentuckyKen
Well-Known Member
My 2 cents, and you get what you pay for!
Tesla Super Chargers are paid for by Tesla drivers and I would consider it stealing for non Tesla drivers to charge there. But I consider this a non-issue since you have to have a Tesla account and there have been no reports of successful hacks that I know of. And of course our Claritys can’t use DC fast charging anyway.
Tesla Destination Chargers are another ball of wax altogether. While subsidized by Tesla, the electricity is paid by the owner of the station and I consider its use to be at the discretion of the owner and would ask before using.
With that said, there is no reservation system for public chargers and I consider them a first come, first served kind of thing and don’t get into the arguments over who needs them the most at any particular time or circumstance. Especially since you can argue this both ways or any way you want. I do however believe in common courtesy to others so I offer this:
I consider the following to be the best etiquette at public chargers and I do this:
1. Always, always, always move your car as soon as your charging is done so it’s available to the most number of people. The only exception to this might be if it’s in a pay to park location and then you’ve payed for the spot but it would still be courteous to move it if possible.
2. Use Plug Share to let others know when the station is in use and when it will be available. The Leaf owners at a free city charger (single plug and single space) here really appreciate this since a couple of them drive from across town to it. I have a hang tag that says go to Plug Share to see when I’ll be done. That way I don’t have to keep figuring out and writing down the time on a note.
3. If multiple parking spaces can access the station, I have a hang tag that is reversible. One side says OK to unplug me if you’re in an emergency low charge state (but plug me back in when done) and one side that says please don’t unplug me, I need a full charge. Both sides say feel free to unplug me if charging is over. Honda Link lets me know what’s going on so it hasn’t been a big inconvenience yet.
It doesn’t cost anything to be nice to people and it’s hard to beat the Golden Rule (do unto others as you would have them do unto you).
Tesla Super Chargers are paid for by Tesla drivers and I would consider it stealing for non Tesla drivers to charge there. But I consider this a non-issue since you have to have a Tesla account and there have been no reports of successful hacks that I know of. And of course our Claritys can’t use DC fast charging anyway.
Tesla Destination Chargers are another ball of wax altogether. While subsidized by Tesla, the electricity is paid by the owner of the station and I consider its use to be at the discretion of the owner and would ask before using.
With that said, there is no reservation system for public chargers and I consider them a first come, first served kind of thing and don’t get into the arguments over who needs them the most at any particular time or circumstance. Especially since you can argue this both ways or any way you want. I do however believe in common courtesy to others so I offer this:
I consider the following to be the best etiquette at public chargers and I do this:
1. Always, always, always move your car as soon as your charging is done so it’s available to the most number of people. The only exception to this might be if it’s in a pay to park location and then you’ve payed for the spot but it would still be courteous to move it if possible.
2. Use Plug Share to let others know when the station is in use and when it will be available. The Leaf owners at a free city charger (single plug and single space) here really appreciate this since a couple of them drive from across town to it. I have a hang tag that says go to Plug Share to see when I’ll be done. That way I don’t have to keep figuring out and writing down the time on a note.
3. If multiple parking spaces can access the station, I have a hang tag that is reversible. One side says OK to unplug me if you’re in an emergency low charge state (but plug me back in when done) and one side that says please don’t unplug me, I need a full charge. Both sides say feel free to unplug me if charging is over. Honda Link lets me know what’s going on so it hasn’t been a big inconvenience yet.
It doesn’t cost anything to be nice to people and it’s hard to beat the Golden Rule (do unto others as you would have them do unto you).
Heino
Active Member
Question - where did you get the hang tag from? Custom or purchased?
I use both the Plug Share and Charge Point apps... and think the steps you mentioned are the way to go. Common courtesy is the key.
Robert_Alabama
Well-Known Member
I don't know about buying anything on Etsy, but here is a link:
https://www.etsy.com/shop/TakeCharg...ers&utm_medium=badges&utm_campaign=en_isell_3
I also saw this decal on Ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Electric-C...303899&hash=item25e1ef6606:g:~EEAAOSwhMFZ2kjt
https://www.etsy.com/shop/TakeCharg...ers&utm_medium=badges&utm_campaign=en_isell_3
I also saw this decal on Ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Electric-C...303899&hash=item25e1ef6606:g:~EEAAOSwhMFZ2kjt
KentuckyKen
Well-Known Member
I made mine myself and had them laminated at Staples with their heaviest lamination since I could not find a premade one exactly like I wanted.
Photo, please.
I applaud your understanding and ethics of the issue. I’ve given up on the other guy.