Tesla has a lot to learn before they build a pickup truck

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David Green

Well-Known Member
I found it interesting all the Tesla Talk about luxury, etc... One critical thing all luxury vehicles share is quiet interiors, and modern work trucks are no different. Currently Tesla's quietest vehicle (per Bjorn Nyland's testing) is the Model X, which has about twice the audible noise at 75 MPH as the Audi E-Tron, and lets not miss that the E-Tron was tested on wet roads, compared to dry for the Tesla X. Model 3 is not even competitive in interior noise level and is down at the bottom of the list with the other economy cars. But how does a modern Diesel pickup do you may ask? Well our friends at the fast lane truck recently tested a 2020 Chevy HD, and to add to the excitement they are towing a 16K lb trailer during the testing. would be like 3 Model X Teslas on a trailer behind, and how is the interior noise? Same as E-Tron at 75 MPH? Same as the quietest EV on the road? WOW.... GM must know something about sound deadening as these trucks with huge grippy tires and a DIESEL engine... here is the link to the test... @ 3:50


EV interior Noise.webp


GM Diesel Pickup being tested.webp
 
My golfing friend/neighbor got a new Chevy truck. I can vouch that it is very quiet. Comparing the Model X and the E-Tron, each has some advantages. The E-Tron is much cheaper. Audi buyers can still get the full $7,500 Federal tax credit and a similarly configured E-Tron stickers for about $9,000 less than the Model X. The combination of tax credit and price difference makes the Model X almost $15,000 more expensive during the 2nd half of 2019. However, the Tesla does have a much greater range and the Tesla charging network.

Tesla continues to bleed money to the extent of over $400 million this last quarter. There are some economic indicators which are indicative of a recession in a year or two. If a recession really does come, I don't see how Tesla will survive in its present form.
 
DaleL said:
My golfing friend/neighbor got a new Chevy truck. I can vouch that it is very quiet. Comparing the Model X and the E-Tron, each has some advantages. The E-Tron is much cheaper. Audi buyers can still get the full $7,500 Federal tax credit and a similarly configured E-Tron stickers for about $9,000 less than the Model X. The combination of tax credit and price difference makes the Model X almost $15,000 more expensive during the 2nd half of 2019. However, the Tesla does have a much greater range and the Tesla charging network.

Tesla continues to bleed money to the extent of over $400 million this last quarter. There are some economic indicators which are indicative of a recession in a year or two. If a recession really does come, I don't see how Tesla will survive in its present form.
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I think my point was more that Tesla does not know how to build a car as quiet as a heavy-duty Chevy Diesel work truck is currently . As for comparing model X, to E-Tron, The model X does have slightly more range, although it does not get anywhere near the EPA rated range in the real world, and can seat seven people (with an upgraded seating package) in every other category E-Tron blows model X out of the water, comfort, handling, steering, features, charging speed , price.

Tesla got a lifeline, I raising cash earlier this year, and I will keep them in business for a while, but their business will continue to lose money, and sales so far in Q3 are terrible. Tesla will have a very hard time, matching Q3 2018 revenue, and sales and of course they will lose a ton of money this year . The Tesla fans that keep defending Elon musk, are just cult members, there is no defense for the fact that his guidance Misses almost every time, and he keeps moving the goal posts. He said last year in Q3, tesla would be profitable every quarter going forward, that was obviously a lie. Now they say they are hoping to break even in Q3, which is exactly what they said last quarter about Q2 . Like I said, they are Lucky they did the cash raise when They did, that will extend their life one more year. Elon musk is just hoping they can perfect full self driving during that time, because if they don’t bankruptcy is the only way. I give them less than 1% chance to fully develop full self driving in the next 12 months. GM is also working very hard on it, as is Waymo, and both of those companies have larger teams working on it, larger test fleet, and are taking a more conservative route with sensor suites in the vehicles . My guess is both of those companies will achieve the goal first
 
gooki said:
Let’s be real, it’s 50% more range. ;)
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Haha... Go check in with Kim at "Like Tesla" as for the Model X real world range, I think she is a bit more experienced to give range information. She claims over the lifetime of her X she is around 435 wh/mi My E-Tron at full charge now has 228 miles showing on the GOM, and as I found out last week on our wine tasting trip to Willamette Vally, that is easy to achieve, even using A/C the entire way. My E-Tron sample size is small as I only have just over 1000 miles on it, but I am currently at 388 (revised) wh/mi lifetime. Tesla S and X really struggle to deliver their EPA range in the real world normal driving conditions, this is a well known fact! My E-Tron is achieving 10% over easily, even on mountain drives with the A/C on. Did I mention that E-Tron also charges more than 50% faster than Tesla S and X 10-90% (realistic road trip scenario) and exactly what I did on our road trip last weekend. In 270 miles we beat the other couple in their Tesla S 75D by over 20 minutes one way trip time (even though at the half way point when they pulled off to charge, they were in front of us), and we also arrived with a higher SOC. I am hoping we take a road trip with our other friends that have an X 100D soon, they have told me repeatedly 215 miles is the most they have gone ( with + or - 30 miles reserve) so with the high charge rate, the E-Tron will relegate their X to an also ran as well. Man those EA stations are popping up everywhere the days. I just recently saw the map for the next 20 WA state locations (Cycle 2), as EA was soliciting bids for the underground utility work, and they are going to have quite a grid.

I am adding a link to "Like Tesla" video discussing range and consumption, and also a screenshot for reference.



A couple other things to note on the model X
*Tesla has been forced to lower the price by 20% in the last year, revise the drive units and suspension, and sales have still been dropping in every major market (Elon guided 100K unit sales for both S and X for 2019, and half way there they have only sold 29K S and X, they better pick up the pace)

* Consumer reports recently rated Model X as 2nd to the lowest reliable vehicle on the road (I did not see any Audi's or VW products on Consumer Reports worst 10 list)

Screen Shot 2019-07-26 at 6.47.06 AM.webp
 
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According to Top Gear, in the real world, the Tesla Model X 100D has about the same range as the Audi E-Tron and the Jaguar I-Pace. https://www.topgear.com/car-news/big-reads/ev-test-audi-e-tron-vs-tesla-model-x-vs-jaguar-i-pace

"Now, economy and running costs, the crux of the matter. Audi reckons the e-tron will do 241 miles at 2.57 miles per kilowatt hour (mpkWh). The I-Pace claims 263 miles and 2.92mpkWh, while Tesla hasn’t yet switched to the new WLTP regs so reckons you’re good for 351 miles between stops. It won’t. It’ll do 200 miles. That’s what they’ll all do, in fact."

The Tesla is also not nearly as well put together and costs considerably more.
 
I follow the USA EPA metrics: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=41514&id=41413&id=41393&id=41417
  • Model S Long Range - 111 MPGe, 30 kWh/100 mi, 379 mi range
  • Model X Long Range - 96 MPGe, 35 kWh/100 mi, 325 mi range
  • I-Pace - 76 MPGe, 44 kWh/100 mi, 234 mi range
  • e-tron - 74 MPGe, 46 kWh/100 mi, 204 mi range
Regardless, efficiency and range is not everything. Buttons and cabin creature comforts are more import to some, especially Consumer Reports.

Bob Wilson
 
DaleL said:
According to Top Gear, in the real world, the Tesla Model X 100D has about the same range as the Audi E-Tron and the Jaguar I-Pace. https://www.topgear.com/car-news/big-reads/ev-test-audi-e-tron-vs-tesla-model-x-vs-jaguar-i-pace

"Now, economy and running costs, the crux of the matter. Audi reckons the e-tron will do 241 miles at 2.57 miles per kilowatt hour (mpkWh). The I-Pace claims 263 miles and 2.92mpkWh, while Tesla hasn’t yet switched to the new WLTP regs so reckons you’re good for 351 miles between stops. It won’t. It’ll do 200 miles. That’s what they’ll all do, in fact."

The Tesla is also not nearly as well put together and costs considerably more.
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I can tell you in the real world, No Tesla can achieve the rated range without using hyper mile tricks or a special route (flat and low speed). I am pretty sure Tesla uses "special" cars for their EPA testing, and the Bolt, E-Tron and other use legit cars hence often overachieving in the real world... Actually Consumer Reports did a Highway test some time ago and the Bolt beat a Model S even though the Model S was rated with much higher range. (Tesla's range ratings are like Elon Musk's guidance... full of crap)

Another thing to note through Bjorn's testing the Tesla's newest model "Raven" model S and X charge even slower than the older 100D, pretty much a road trip LOSER in comparison to E-Tron which is the fastest charging from 10-90% SOC mass production EV on the planet (29 Minutes in my testing) with over 200 mile range. Soon to be displaced by the Taycan (another VW product) , Which will set a new benchmark above the E-Tron. Tesla's are wimpy on the charging, and just got slower after the latest software update that Tesla hopes will slow the number of spontaneous fires like the one in Shanghai (Never seen an ICE car sitting in a parking lot explode like that in a number of seconds).
 
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bwilson4web said:
I follow the USA EPA metrics: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=41514&id=41413&id=41393&id=41417
  • Model S Long Range - 111 MPGe, 30 kWh/100 mi, 379 mi range
  • Model X Long Range - 96 MPGe, 35 kWh/100 mi, 325 mi range
  • I-Pace - 76 MPGe, 44 kWh/100 mi, 234 mi range
  • e-tron - 74 MPGe, 46 kWh/100 mi, 204 mi range
Regardless, efficiency and range is not everything. Buttons and cabin creature comforts are more import to some, especially Consumer Reports.

Bob Wilson
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I tend to give more credence to real world testing, even if it is yours, Bob. The EPA has always had accuracy issues because some manufacturers cheat on the data. I can think of several that have been busted... My guess is that Tesla is one of those cheaters as their 250 mile range rated cars cannot hang with the E-Tron on the trips I have seen... And their 295 mile rated Model X 100D, in my friends experience has never gotten over 240 miles real world. Then when you factor in that Tesla does not recommend to charge fully on a daily basis, and you have the result, Tesla are not legit on the range, actually not even close.

Added

I now know how the E-Tron gets such a low rating, its not the highway trips, its the short local trips that kill it. I have seen trips that are 1 - 3 miles that are as high as 480 wh/mi, but my average for 1500 miles is 380 wh/mi, well under the EPA rating.
 
gooki said:
Opps my mistake. The Tesla Model X has 59% more range than the Etron.
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So bring out your Model X 100D, and let's go a 1000 mile road trip and see who gets to the end first, shoot, you can even bring the new "Raven X" as in Bjorn Nyland testing they charge even slower than the old 100D which is pretty darn slow for 2019.
 
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