Tesla competition has arrived

[bwilson4web]

Source: fueleconomy.gov/

There have been a lot of noise about the ID.4 which turns out to be right in the middle of the pack. The high efficient range is covered by Tesla and Hyundai. The rest are pretty not so compelling. Bob Lutz claimed Tesla has no advantage, everyone has the same technology. Then they get measured and discover the special Tesla sauce ... very good engineering.

Bob Wilson

 

[DaleL]

A small correction: https://fueleconomy.gov/ not http://www.fueleconmy.gov/

At first look, the Volkswagen ID.4 does seem competitive with today's standard range Model 3. The price, after the Federal tax credit, is lower than a standard range Model 3. Volkswagen advantages are: dealerships, better build quality, and lower final price. Tesla advantages include: available now, extensive charging network and available 310 mile long range version.

A better comparison will be in the summer of 2021 when the ID.4 is available. As I have written in the past, it is not fair to compare that which actually exists (In this case the Model 3.) with that which is promised (ID.4).

It is true that "everyone" has the same or at least similar technology, but real world experience is important. Electric vehicles are every bit as complicated and difficult to build as conventional ICE powered vehicles. If they were easy, Tesla would have had a lot more competition.

 

[ericy]

A better comparison to the ID.4 would be the Model Y. The aerodynamics are going to be a closer than comparing to a Model 3.

 

[bwilson4web]

I agree that other specifications such as seats and cargo area makes sense for grouping cars. So a family with four kids is going to need more than a five seat vehicle. Just I'm an efficiency fanatic and higher efficiency is a primary metric that appeals to me.

Bob Wilson

 

[Domenick]

A better comparison to the ID.4 would be the Model Y. The aerodynamics are going to be a closer than comparing to a Model 3.

Here's the ID.4 against the Model Y. Threw in the Polestar 2 as a bonus, even if it isn't exactly a crossover. Still interesting to see it rate less efficient than actual crossovers.

 

[Esprit1st]

You would think that VW would be able to build a more efficient vehicle ... But then maybe they did the same thing as with the Porsche. State a 200 mile take and then the car actually goes a lot further. [emoji1787]

 

[bwilson4web]

You would think that VW would be able to build a more efficient vehicle ... But then maybe they did the same thing as with the Porsche. State a 200 mile take and then the car actually goes a lot further. [emoji1787]

We call that 'sandbagging' which Tesla did with some of their early Model 3. The manufacturer has the option of listing the range smaller than the measured range. What they can't do is 'inflate' the range beyond what testing showed.

Bob Wilson

 

[DucRider]

We call that 'sandbagging' which Tesla did with some of their early Model 3. The manufacturer has the option of listing the range smaller than the measured range. What they can't do is 'inflate' the range beyond what testing showed.

Bob Wilson

Indeed they did.
The EPA docs show they did voluntarily lower it ..... from 252 miles to 250

 

[101101]

We call that 'sandbagging' which Tesla did with some of their early Model 3. The manufacturer has the option of listing the range smaller than the measured range. What they can't do is 'inflate' the range beyond what testing showed.

Bob Wilson

They aren't sand bagging and their quality isn't that good and certainly not better. Their self driving stuff is way behind. They have negative good will and a divided house. They are an out sourcer without software competence. They are not competition at this point and their share price reflects this. They are still, despite posturing, a fossil fuel company and a backward family owned hybrid mess
with a union that is a fossil fuel front. Their price point for a future inferior product is marginal. They are 5-10 behind by their own estimates. They are talking compliance numbers in the states and totally inadequate bev numbers over all. But at least its not a lame or critically flawed vehicle and that's good. But its not a Model Y competitor- its performance, range and speed just aren't remotely there. Its a defensive vehicle.

 

[Domenick]

They aren't sand bagging and their quality isn't that good and certainly not better. Their self driving stuff is way behind. They have negative good will and a divided house. They are an out sourcer without software competence. They are not competition at this point and their share price reflects this. They are still, despite posturing, a fossil fuel company and a backward family owned hybrid mess
with a union that is a fossil fuel front. Their price point for a future inferior product is marginal. They are 5-10 behind by their own estimates. They are talking compliance numbers in the states and totally inadequate bev numbers over all. But at least its not a lame or critically flawed vehicle and that's good. But its not a Model Y competitor- its performance, range and speed just aren't remotely there. Its a defensive vehicle.

The ID.4 maybe not have the range and quickness of the Model Y, but it's still a nice driving, spacious vehicle that's available for a lot less money than the Model Y. Numbers are necessarily small to begin because one factory is supplying every market. Volume will pick up when they begin making them at the Chattanooga plant. The price might even go down then.
Personally, I'd prefer the Model Y if I had the money, but the reality is I'm much more likely to get an ID.4 because it's much closer to my budget.

 

[Esprit1st]

The ID.4 maybe not have the range and quickness of the Model Y, but it's still a nice driving, spacious vehicle that's available for a lot less money than the Model Y. Numbers are necessarily small to begin because one factory is supplying every market. Volume will pick up when they begin making them at the Chattanooga plant. The price might even go down then.
Personally, I'd prefer the Model Y if I had the money, but the reality is I'm much more likely to get an ID.4 because it's much closer to my budget.

Agreed, every automaker other than Tesla is "behind" right now. However I believe VW is at least putting a real effort into it. I believe pretty much the only legacy automaker showing that effort. They still have a LOT of catching up to do.

 

[bwilson4web]

They aren't sand bagging . . .

If "They" is VW, no problem.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

"Source selection" is process for selecting the best product for any requirements. It starts with understanding the requirements and separating them into:

• Mandatory - a YES or NO decision
• Optional - ones that are evaluated via a scale

So this is how I selected a Tesla Std Rng Plus Model 3:

• Mandatory
  • From Huntsville AL reach the following in 12-14 hour, daily segments:
    • Coffeyville, KS - Mom
    • Stillwater, OK - Family homestead
    • Dallas, TX - deceased best friend
    • Tucson, AZ - Brother Will
    • Phoenix, AZ - Brother George
    • Los Angeles, CA - Mom's sister
    • Seattle, WA - Brother Charles
    • Madison, WI - Prius friends Eric and Becky
    • Oshkosh, WI - EAA museum
    • Bridgeport, CT - Brother Dave
    • New York City, NY - Holly's son
    • Rehoboth, DE - Holly's son
    • Silver Spring, MD - Holly's daughters
  • Hold two adults and dogs with camping in the car gear
  • Allow passenger and dogs to stretch out and take a nap on the road
  • Automatic Driver Assistance System:
    • Dynamic cruise control
    • Automatic lane following
    • Automatic lane changing
    • Emergency braking
    • 360 degree parking sensors
  • Heating and air conditioning, outside -20F to 120F with cabin at 65F-85F
  • Under $30k net cost
  • Technical document library for self maintenance
• Optional, 100% total
  • 30% - Lowest cost per mile
  • 20% - Lowest tire cost
  • 15% - Power seats
  • 10% - Exterior color
  • 10% - Play iPhone music, podcasts, and phone calls
  • 10% - Reclining seats
  • 05% - Tow receiver hitch

These are our requirements which are not tied to any given manufacturer. The mandatory are PASS/FAIL so if not present the product fails. The optional requirements have cost weighting and flexibility and may be completed by after market products. For example, pillows and blankets that help the seats become recliners.

Bob Wilson