Stopped KONA) After lasted BMS update - we found 7th cases..

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ericy said:
They required my dealer to purchase a special lift table to perform this job. Evidently around 5kUSD$.

I am wondering if pack removal will ever be something that one could do at home. Unless you had a palette jack or some such, the answer is probably no.
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As my saga continues:
1. I still not have the HV pack info you guys asked for. I sense some hesitation by the dealer.
2. I was informed yesterday (Nov 10) that the problem was placed in the hands of Hyundai Canada.
Can't do much but wait and see. Of course I would like my car back ASAP but in this situation getting to pushy with the dealer will not get you anywhere. At least they gave me a set of wheels so we are not stranded.

I wonder tough; since LG Chem is one of the world largest, if not the largest, EV battery manufacturer where does the problem lie? Are the battery related problem GM is having with the Bolt related?

As for removing/servicing the HV pack at home, it is probably not a good idea.
 
electriceddy said:
Money well invested by the dealer. Judging by the way things have been going, I suspect the lift device will become a very handy and well used tool;)
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I darn well think you are dead wrong. Existing stats indicate that on average the batteries will outlast the life of the car. If you are right we all bought a real lemon.
 
Every service department should have any special tools required to replace any part. And, as best as I'm aware it's just standard commercial lift table. If you've seen Weber Auto channel's YouTube videos he removed the pack from a Bolt, I think by himself, and he's confined to a wheelchair.

It seems a shame that the entire pack needs to be replaced for what is no-doubt just one wayward cell out of 294. It could have been designed essentially upside down to allow the main cover to be removed in-situ and any of the 10 modules removed from the underside. At that level the modules would be much easier and safer to handle by the dealer's technicians, or by a local specialist, or just replaced at a cost proportionally-lower than the entire pack.

It's a leap of faith by EV makers to assume cell quality would be so high as to preclude some finite level of failures when the per-cell failure rate is multiplied by the hundreds of cells used.
 
apu said:
Oh boy, Lars I think you may have the distinction of being the first 2021 Kona (post March 2020) with a traction battery failure. So sorry for your troubles.
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Your reference of the dubious honor of being the first 2021 owner with an HV battery issue bugged me. I found the possible explanation by digging into insideEVs. The issue of Oct 12. 2020 (https://insideevs.com/news/448423/hyundai-recall-77000-kona-electric-worldwide/) may have the answer why the recall covers cars built before March 2020. I quote: "Until March 2020, all Kona Electric vehicles were manufactured in Hyundai’s country. From that month on, it started to be produced in Nošovice, Czechia. We have no idea if production in the European country brought any changes to how the car was manufactured in South Korea."

I have a strange feeling that start of production in Czechia it did not alter cars produced in South Korea.

Two points to make here:
1. My car was produced in South Korea - if I recall correctly on June 17/2020. But in any case after March 2020.
2. According some news - can't recall the source just now - the cars produced in Czechia do not use LG batteries. If this is correct it is reasonable to imagine that somewhere some info was mixed up. The recall was perhaps to all, BUT not the units manufactured in Czechia.
3. If that is the case it explains why my car developed HV battery problem - my battery pack is part of a bad batch of products. If so I wonder how many other 2021s were delivered to date in North America?
 
KiwiME said:
Every service department should have any special tools required to replace any part. And, as best as I'm aware it's just standard commercial lift table. If you've seen Weber Auto channel's YouTube videos he removed the pack from a Bolt, I think by himself, and he's confined to a wheelchair.

It seems a shame that the entire pack needs to be replaced for what is no-doubt just one wayward cell out of 294. It could have been designed essentially upside down to allow the main cover to be removed in-situ and any of the 10 modules removed from the underside. At that level the modules would be much easier and safer to handle by the dealer's technicians, or by a local specialist, or just replaced at a cost proportionally-lower than the entire pack.

It's a leap of faith by EV makers to assume cell quality would be so high as to preclude some finite level of failures when the per-cell failure rate is multiplied by the hundreds of cells used.
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The TSB required the dealer to have one specific model of table. No other brand would do.

Swapping from the bottom would make a lot of sense.

I have never liked the way Tesla pots them in epoxy, as this eliminates all possibility of refurb. I have no doubt that they do this to control heat, and enable much higher charging rates.
 
KiwiME said:
Every service department should have any special tools required to replace any part. And, as best as I'm aware it's just standard commercial lift table. If you've seen Weber Auto channel's YouTube videos he removed the pack from a Bolt, I think by himself, and he's confined to a wheelchair.

It seems a shame that the entire pack needs to be replaced for what is no-doubt just one wayward cell out of 294. It could have been designed essentially upside down to allow the main cover to be removed in-situ and any of the 10 modules removed from the underside. At that level the modules would be much easier and safer to handle by the dealer's technicians, or by a local specialist, or just replaced at a cost proportionally-lower than the entire pack.

It's a leap of faith by EV makers to assume cell quality would be so high as to preclude some finite level of failures when the per-cell failure rate is multiplied by the hundreds of cells used.
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Yes, the key is finite level of failures.
 
@KiwiME "It could have been designed essentially upside down to allow the main cover to be removed in-situ and any of the 10 modules removed from the underside."
Alternately the pack have it's own jack support points, so the car could be lifted from the pack, allowing easier replacement of the modules.;)
 
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electriceddy said:
@KiwiME "It could have been designed essentially upside down to allow the main cover to be removed in-situ and any of the 10 modules removed from the underside."
Alternately the pack have it's own jack support points, so the car could be lifted from the pack, allowing easier replacement of the modules.;)
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Great concept. However, I am sure there is a reason, guided by numerous trade-offs, why all EV manufacturers use the same method of packaging and installing the HV battery. Normally there is a unit called 'manufacturing engineering', responsible for both manufacture-ability and repair-ability, involved in the design process from early on. The final design must also consider the likelihood of failure. If EV batteries fail in large numbers during their normal warranty period it could be a kiss of death to the manufacturer both financially and due to loss of good will. Beside issues with the early Leaf's HV battery the statistical evidence to date points to long battery life.
The bottom line is that the current issue with Kona EV is Hyundai's growing pain. I drove a Mitsubishi iMiEV for 6 years without any problems, even without any visible loss of battery capacity.
 
Thank you for the education but as a mechanical engineer I'm entirely aware of how all this works.
 
Has LG Chem (a.k.a. LG Solutions) improved the design of the Kona EV battery pack? If so, after what date of 2021 Kona manufacture were improved battery packs installed? What do you look for to determine whether the battery in a 2021 Kona EV will have problems?
 
JohnEEngineer said:
Has LG Chem (a.k.a. LG Solutions) improved the design of the Kona EV battery pack? If so, after what date of 2021 Kona manufacture were improved battery packs installed? What do you look for to determine whether the battery in a 2021 Kona EV will have problems?
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Try to look at the label on the back of the pack behind the rear suspension drivers side to obtain the manufacture date (of the pack - not the car) along with it's related BMS ROM ID and part #.
As there are updates pretty much on a weekly basis now, it is hard to determine future problems. The recalls were applied to packs manufactured before March 13, 2020.
The answer to your first question I tried to answer in your other 2 posts
 
My Kona is sitting at Dealer after the HV battery failure. Dealer doesn’t have ETA on replacement battery because they have to build one, and ship it from manufacturer.
 
Kevin Nguyen said:
My Kona is sitting at Dealer after the HV battery failure. Dealer doesn’t have ETA on replacement battery because they have to build one, and ship it from manufacturer.
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This will not make you happy but let you know that you are "in good company". Make sure they provide you with a loaner.
There is quite a few of us on this board who ended up like you, myself included. To replace the battery your dealer will need two (maybe three?) special tools and a special hydraulic jack. Check and make sure they know this and that all items are ordered. Otherwise even if they get your new battery, they may have to wait extra weeks for these tools. My battery was sitting at the dealer for an other two weeks waiting for all the tools and the jack. Seemingly every darn item was shipped separately.
To add insult to injury when, after three months, I got my new battery installed, they took my car back two days later because the new batteries should have been installed using new bolts which were not shipped with the battery. Apparently the bolts used to fasten the battery pack to the car are "one time use" bolts.
Hyundai is not equipped to service these cars.
 
Lars said:
This will not make you happy but let you know that you are "in good company". Make sure they provide you with a loaner.
There is quite a few of us on this board who ended up like you, myself included. To replace the battery your dealer will need two (maybe three?) special tools and a special hydraulic jack. Check and make sure they know this and that all items are ordered. Otherwise even if they get your new battery, they may have to wait extra weeks for these tools. My battery was sitting at the dealer for an other two weeks waiting for all the tools and the jack. Seemingly every darn item was shipped separately.
To add insult to injury when, after three months, I got my new battery installed, they took my car back two days later because the new batteries should have been installed using new bolts which were not shipped with the battery. Apparently the bolts used to fasten the battery pack to the car are "one time use" bolts.
Hyundai is not equipped to service these cars.
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That was probably one of the reasons a 2019 Kona EV was picked up after 4 months waiting for a replacement pack (960 update failure) the day before I picked up my new one in late October.
On the bright side, if anything should happen to this one... at least that time should be reduced now that they have the know how;)
 
there is some politics in it, and Tesla is an uncomfortable competitor to Chinese EV manufacturers. Five departments involved in the three failure cases? Musk may soon feel like a Kafka hero ;-)
 
Lars said:
This will not make you happy but let you know that you are "in good company". Make sure they provide you with a loaner.
There is quite a few of us on this board who ended up like you, myself included. To replace the battery your dealer will need two (maybe three?) special tools and a special hydraulic jack. Check and make sure they know this and that all items are ordered. Otherwise even if they get your new battery, they may have to wait extra weeks for these tools. My battery was sitting at the dealer for an other two weeks waiting for all the tools and the jack. Seemingly every darn item was shipped separately.
To add insult to injury when, after three months, I got my new battery installed, they took my car back two days later because the new batteries should have been installed using new bolts which were not shipped with the battery. Apparently the bolts used to fasten the battery pack to the car are "one time use" bolts.
Hyundai is not equipped to service these cars.
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Do you know what brand of your new battery? Is it still a LG pack. SK battery has been banned in US for 10 years. Good luck to the guy that had failure SK pack in the future.
 
Kevin Nguyen said:
Do you know what brand of your new battery? Is it still a LG pack. SK battery has been banned in US for 10 years. Good luck to the guy that had failure SK pack in the future.
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I am not surprised. In reality it is unlikely that Hyundai will drop LG as a supplier of HV batteries. That is not the problem. The problem is that no one seems to commit knowing for sure what the underlying issue is. Until that is known the flaw in the battery cannot be fixed.
 
Lars said:
I am not surprised. In reality it is unlikely that Hyundai will drop LG as a supplier of HV batteries. That is not the problem. The problem is that no one seems to commit knowing for sure what the underlying issue is. Until that is known the flaw in the battery cannot be fixed.
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Replace all battery on 77000 unit is costing them billions dollars. It’s hard to say yes I do. Lol


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