Ride quality: 16" vs 17" wheels ?

  • Thread starter Thread starter polyphonic
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Which wheel size has better ride quality in the SE?

  • 16 "

    Votes: 6 66.7%

  • 17 "

    Votes: 1 11.1%

  • No discernible difference

    Votes: 2 22.2%
  • Total voters
    9
Carsten Haase said:
Both are probably true to an extent but I feel like the suspension tuning and sprung/unsprung mass ratio makes much more of a difference than wheelbase.
For example, these things only have a 6" longer wheelbase than the MINI but would ride like cloud:


Another factor for perceived longer=better ride could be that in general, longer vehicles are intended to be more luxurious with softer suspension tuning and shorter vehicles are supposed to be sporty with stiffer suspension (or are cheap economy cars with crappy suspension).
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A shorter wheelbase does give worse ride quality for the reasons explained previously, however this is true regardless of wheel size.
The OP wanted to know the difference the wheel size makes, the short answer to which is the smaller the better (or rather the taller the side wall).
Shorter wheelbases are better for changing direction quickly, as is putting the wheels to the corners of the car and living the engine further back towards the firewall (Audi have traditionally had a propensity for the front to run wide as they always mounted their engine slightly further forward over the front wheels than say a BMW. But again that’s going off topic…
 
revorg said:
Ouch! So which is the Mini? Sporty or cheap economy? My reputation depends on your answer.
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Neither of those was directed at the MINI (although I'd put it in the sporty category for sure!), I was just saying I don't think I've seen a short wheelbase car designed for comfort/luxury
 
That may be because of the marketing of all of those big tank-like SUV's that are big profit makers for the industry. They've fooled the gullible public into thinking that bigger denotes higher status.
 
Carsten Haase said:
Harsher/stiffer feeling but better handling (improvement in my opinion)
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Which all season tires were you running? Would you recommend them and did they affect the cars range at all?

I'm asking as I think I would prefer all seasons to summer tires as I'm in the Pacific Northwest.
 
atari said:
Which all season tires were you running? Would you recommend them and did they affect the cars range at all?

I'm asking as I think I would prefer all seasons to summer tires as I'm in the Pacific Northwest.
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I'm using 215/45R17 BFGoodrich Comp2 A/S plus tires on wider 17x7.5 wheels. They are great tires but they absolutely reduced the range. I went from an average of 4.7 mi/kWh to 3.7 mi/kWh which is a 28.9mi reduction in range (down to 107mi)

Here's a good comparison of efficiency of different tires over the same loop. Basically it shows that the stock 16" are the most efficient, wheel/tire width has some small effect (~5mi reduction), and tire rubber/tread has a huge effect!

The stock summer tires are about as efficient as you can get so at best you'll be able to match the range but most likely will see some reduction depending on tire type. This thread has more information on tire choice. If you can find it, the EU tire (tyre) label has an efficiency rating to use to compare. The stock tires got an A for efficiency and my Comp2s got a D.
 
I'll find out what the efficiency is for Pirelli Cinturato P7 RFT summers with black tentacle spokes in May. It's still 10F with a wee bit of snow.
 
Shorter wheelbase = better cornering. As for tires, runflats suck for comfort. With my OEM tires (summer performance) the ride is very similar to my BMW m240i in sport mode. You feel everything, but it's not jarring. There isn't adaptive suspension so it's the same in all modes. But it hasn't bothered me, as I prefer the road-feel response. If you're driving in snow/ice conditions it would be completely different, of course.
 
I would recommend a really great book to any driving enthusiast who wants to understand the design and effects of changes to suspension components. Wheels and tyres are important aspects of the suspension.
Fred Puhn wrote a great book called ‘How to Make Your Car Handle’ back in the 70s. His discussions include suspension geometry, spring rates, shock absorber damping rates, and aspects of wheel base. Polar moment of inertia, roll centres, and even more considerations affecting the handling of a vehicle.
The MINI 3-door hardtop, imo, hits a very high level of handling performance straight out of the box but one must understand that every suspension set up is a compromise. Not having driven other MINI configurations, I can’t offer my subjective opinion on how they handle.
My neighbour has an ICE MINI Cooper S track car. His suspension (almost all components) have been tweaked or changed to suit the race track but not many of the mass(?) market MINI SE owners would be happy with the ride characteristics of his race car.
Fred Puhn’s book, the theoretical and practical advice he offers, is still the basis of all my decisions on handling mods (with some regard for cost effectiveness.)
Check used book stores or maybe Amazon for a copy.


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FrankinCarp said:
Fred Puhn’s book, the theoretical and practical advice he offers, is still the basis of all my decisions on handling mods (with some regard for cost effectiveness.)
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I have nothing but good things to say about the compromises MINI made to balance comfort vs handling capabilities in the SE. I certainly would never think of trading handling for more comfort, but my SE being the best-handling FWD car I've ever driven, I see no reason to trade comfort for even better handling. I look forward to the day when aftermarket batteries can reduce the car's weight while maintaining at least the same range as the OEM battery.

Same with MINI's choice of OEM tires--@Carsten Haase has selected tires that shift his SE's balance of handling vs range to favor handling, but I'm too chicken to push my OEM Hankooks beyond their traction limits, so they're just fine by me.

@FrankinCarp, what mods has Fred Puhn tempted you to make to your SE and what desired mods would you consider not cost-effective? Perhaps a cool, but not cost-effective, mod would be a set of famous-named adjustable shock absorbers that you would end up adjusting to the same comfort-level as the stock shocks?
 
insightman said:
I have nothing but good things to say about the compromises MINI made to balance comfort vs handling capabilities in the SE. I certainly would never think of trading handling for more comfort, but my SE being the best-handling FWD car I've ever driven, I see no reason to trade comfort for even better handling. I look forward to the day when aftermarket batteries can reduce the car's weight while maintaining at least the same range as the OEM battery.

Same with MINI's choice of OEM tires--@Carsten Haase has selected tires that shift his SE's balance of handling vs range to favor handling, but I'm too chicken to push my OEM Hankooks beyond their traction limits, so they're just fine by me.

@FrankinCarp, what mods has Fred Puhn tempted you to make to your SE and what desired mods would you consider not cost-effective? Perhaps a cool, but not cost-effective, mod would be a set of famous-named adjustable shock absorbers that you would end up adjusting to the same comfort-level as the stock shocks?
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@insightman
I agree with you on the engineering decisions made by the intelligent BMW/MINI folks that provide an excellent balance of comfort/handling. I am not inclined to modify any aspect aside from the choice of rubber. The factory Hankook tyres do a pretty good job but when they are due for replacement, I may look for just a little more grip in the wet provided they don’t compromise range.
In my early history, I spent a pretty big wack of money on engine performance and it did gain me some positive acceleration benefits in a straight line but really didn’t make a big difference in rallies. My next car, I didn’t touch the engine - a relatively anemic engine - but I did pour about the same amount of money into Bilstein gas pressure shocks, sway bars, alloy wheels, lower aspect ratio tyres, and replaced all the rubber bushings with various nylon ones. I added stiffness to the front by adding triangulated bracing between strut towers and the firewall. The resulting improvements in handling made cornering speeds much higher and timing much faster overall. It was fun. The car cornered on rails with almost no body roll but…
Over the years, the stiffness, coupled with road salt winters, there was a ‘certain amount of rust’ that developed. The nylon bushings transferred stress to lower control arms attachment points. The failure of the attachment was quite loud and a little disconcerting at 120 kph (70 mph) on a busy highway. A touch of the brakes without the lower control arm would make for a significant directional change and I could feel in my left foot the tyre rubbing against the wheel well. It made a ver disturbing noise.
I am ‘older’ (and maybe wiser) now. I am content to watch Verstappen, Leclerc, Vettel and others push the track limits.
As I said earlier, I am content with the handling/comfort Mike Wazowski provides.



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The OEM ride height is what kills me so I put on coilovers. The ride is sometimes a little rough but only on certain parts of the interstate where large trucks have caused dips in the road and the coilovers remind me that I'm in a short wheelbase car.
 
JonR said:
The OEM ride height is what kills me so I put on coilovers. The ride is sometimes a little rough but only on certain parts of the interstate where large trucks have caused dips in the road and the coilovers remind me that I'm in a short wheelbase car.
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When you say the “ride height is what kills you”, is this change to ride height by adding coilovers for appearance purposes? Or handling?
Appearance can certainly be valid reason to mod your suspension.
I’m thinking about adding titanium skid blocks so when I bottom out the suspension, I will leave a spectacular F1-like shower of sparks behind me.

(Just kidding)



Mike Wazowski [emoji1063][emoji1063][emoji1063]
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The ride height looks too high to me so it is for appearance purposes.

Speaking of F1, I would love it if we had 1 center fog light instead of two and then have it flash when the battery is charging when decelerating. Instead, our brake lights come on all of the time and the rear fog lights do nothing.
 
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