jdonalds
Well-Known Member
I guess I should have put a price limit on my comment about PHEVs with more than 50 miles of EV range. $155,000 for a Polestar 1 is more than I owe on my house. The Clarity was the most expensive car I've ever purchased.
RAV4 Prime PHEV for 2021 - anyone considering adding / jumping ??
The Clarity PHEV is quite a bargain, even at it's rarely paid MSRP.
Tek_Freek
Active Member
Polestar 2 is rumored to start at around $55k
Launch edition is $63K (plus destination charges), but it is a BEV with 275 miles of range, so not really a comparison to the Clarity or RAV4
Regardless of how cool it looks or how thrilling it may be to drive, it must be difficult to face another human and tell them a conscious decision was made to purchase a car named Polestar. The name seems better suited to a reality TV show centered at a gentleman’s club.
Perhaps something was lost in translation.
Perhaps something was lost in translation.
The Gadgeteer
Active Member
Some owners of the Rav4 Hybrid are reporting issues of not being able to access about 5 gallons of their 14.5 gallon gas tanks. Toyota claims it has to do with the new shape of the tank in some models (apparently not all models have the same tank?). Anyway, potential buyers may want to keep an eye on this as it may pertain to the Rav4 prime as well.
In fact I am very curious if the Rav4 Hybrid and Rav4 Prime will be essentially the same with the exception the Prime would have a larger battery and modified software (and hopefully not the fuel tank issue). I am hoping that is the case because it will give the Rav4 Prime the advantages that come with more mainstream mass produced vehicles. If Toyota can make a quality PHEV vehicle with 39 miles range without giving up the spare tire that is affordable, profitable, and desirable maybe others will as well. If there is a battery technology breakthrough the range will only get better.
In fact I am very curious if the Rav4 Hybrid and Rav4 Prime will be essentially the same with the exception the Prime would have a larger battery and modified software (and hopefully not the fuel tank issue). I am hoping that is the case because it will give the Rav4 Prime the advantages that come with more mainstream mass produced vehicles. If Toyota can make a quality PHEV vehicle with 39 miles range without giving up the spare tire that is affordable, profitable, and desirable maybe others will as well. If there is a battery technology breakthrough the range will only get better.
RAV4 Hybrid claims 219 total HP (176 from the ICE)
RAV4 Prime specs at 302 HP (with the same 176 from the ICE)
It could be that the same electric motors are used in the Prime and the bigger batteries can provide more juice. I think it more likely that they offer different motors (why put in heavier and more expensive motors than can be utilized?).
The RAV4 Hybrid is fitted with a 1.6kWh nickel-metal-hydride battery instead of the much larger (16-18 kWh?) lithium-ion that will be in the PHEV (typical scenario). Lots of associated components will change, but many will likely be shared with the Prius Prime.
The standard Prius has a 0.75-kwh lithium-ion pack, while all-wheel-drive models use a 1.2-kwh nickel-metal hydride battery (and the rear motor is a whopping 7 HP).
Lots of numbers, but my guess is the RAV4 Prime has a significantly different drive train (batteries, electric motors, etc) than the Hybrid. Toyota expects their models to sell in volume (the Prius Prime is second best selling plug-in in the US - only topped by the Model 3), and they will optimize components for the various offerings.
In typical Toyota approach I expect a big slab of batteries in the cargo area. It is less of a problem in Rav4 than for example Prius Prime, because the SUV body provides much more height, and the lower section of the cargo area in SUVs is usually underutilized to provide a flat floor with seats folded. Overall I would say most chassis/body parts will be identical to the hybrid. The electric motors and springs/dampers will probably be different.
It has already been revealed and the cargo area is not negatively affected in the Prime. Search it on Youtube
That probably just means it is the same with load floor in upper position. The lower position will probably be gone, along with spare tire. This is obviously a guess only, but I don't think RAV4 has enough empty space elsewhere to fit such a big battery.
I see, but he confirmed that the cargo area is smaller, but they maintained enough space for a donut, which is great. Regular RAV4 has enough depth for a full size spare.
jdonalds
Well-Known Member
I'm good with a donut. Having a spare is huge for me. This car is very tempting. We once owned a CR-V and loved it for its high sitting position, zippy performance, and large cargo space. For me though the 39 mile EV Range is a show stopper. All of the other very attractive features don't overshadow the range for us. With only 39 miles of range we'd be using gas most days in the winter when the range would drop. For me my next car will have over 50 miles of EV range, or it will be an under $40K BEV with 15 minutes or less of recharge time.
15 minutes for what? 50 miles? 200 miles? 80% of the battery? 100% of the battery?
jdonalds
Well-Known Member
For me a BEV with 250 miles of range with an 80% charge time from zero in under 15 minutes would be ideal. We have three ranges we cover throughout the year.
1) Weekdays between 50 and 70 miles per day. We can charge at home between trips which is why the Clarity is perfect for us. We are 100% electric for weeks. I think of and speak of the Clarity as an electric car. A BEV with 250 miles of range would be overkill for daily use.
2) Road trips of 350 miles round trip. So a BEV with 250 miles would easily get us to our destination 175 miles away. We could then charge
for the return trip and have enough to get home. We make these trips about every six weeks. The Clarity does this quite well, the only difference being charge times for a BEV aren't short enough to be practical for us.
2) Two trips of 1,100 miles round trip each year. For a BEV with 250 miles of range we'd have to recharge twice to make the 550 miles one way. Then charge twice again on the return trip. That's two stops of 15 minutes each which would be similar to an ICE refuel. The Clarity handles this with ease.
The Clarity is actually close to ideal but of course I'd like to be free of the ICE and all of its moving parts, oil, etc. The fundamental factor for me is an ICE just seems archaic. It's 100 year old technology, using gas, creating dirty explosions, so much heat, valves, exhaust systems, radiators, hoses, and such. It's time to move on.
I personally don't think BEVs are quite ready for prime time. At least they aren't at our house.
Tek_Freek
Active Member
LOL "Towdah". Is that a sub-brand from Toyota?
I am looking real hard at this one. Not worried about range. Las Vegas doesn't get that cold for very long. And for cross country travel it's ideal as long as the system is similar to the Clarity so the engine maintains battery level I'm good.
I am looking real hard at this one. Not worried about range. Las Vegas doesn't get that cold for very long. And for cross country travel it's ideal as long as the system is similar to the Clarity so the engine maintains battery level I'm good.