Range reduction

[Fillip4philip]

My Kona EV had a recent update and recall work done before Christmas. Since then my range has reduced significantly as has achievable miles/kWh.

I’m aware of the impact of winter temperatures - this is my second winter with the Kona and 5 years of EV ownership.

Even so GOM at 100% now rarely exceeds 225 miles. Miles/kWh rarely exceeds 3.6. My driving style has not changed and last winter I was getting much higher range and efficiency.

I drive some long distances and early Jan did a round trip of about 560 miles in a weekend. During this I verified my actual range was close to the GOM prediction of around 225. Lots of motorway at at around 65mph. Similar drive in August (at summer temperatures) achieved a real range of about 270 again at near motorway speeds. Again GOM was pretty close.

Interested in others thoughts and experiences. I wondered if the recent update has caused the reduction which seems excessive even for winter.

Thanks for reading this far!!


Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs

 

[Fastnf]

I have all the recent battery updates and I am not seeing any range reduction. I am seeing about 220 miles at 80%. The temp out side to day is 35 f.

 

[Joev]

I have found on a 1200 mile 2-day road trip that any type of headwind will significantly reduce your miles per kw especially at highway speed. Could that have been the variable?

 

[apu]

I currently have a huge range reduction but its all temperature related, has been in the -30C range last few days. As you may note in the attached picture my GOM is indicating 189km(118 miles) range with a 85% SOC( average consumption of 3km/kw(1.8 miles/kw) . This actually correlates to an accurate real range estimate. Did a recent highway trip of 234km actual travel on a full 100% and I had to drive at 95 km/hr(59mph) with heat set as low as possible without the windows freezing up for half the trip so I could make it. Prior to the cold snap I did a full run from 100 to 1% SOC and verified my battery capacity is as nominally rated, consumption is the real issue not battery capacity. I am seeing consumption figures are as high as 31kw/100km.
At -30C and cabin heat at set at 22C auto the resistance heater is pulling 4.1- 5 Kw/hr on average all the time. The cold related resistance to the driveline, higher air friction, windspeed and winter road conditions do a huge number on consumption.

 

[electriceddy]

I currently have a huge range reduction but its all temperature related, been in been in the -30C range last few days. As you may note in the attached picture my GOM is indicating 189km(118 miles) range with a 85% SOC( average consumption of 3km/kw(1.8 miles/kw) . This actually correlates to an accurate real range estimate. Did a recent highway trip of 234km actual travel on a full 100% and I had to drive at 95 km/hr(59mph) with heat set as low as possible without the windows freezing up for half the trip so I could make it. Prior to the cold snap I did a full run from 100 to 1% SOC and verified my battery capacity is as nominally rated, consumption is the real issue not battery capacity. I am seeing consumption figures are as high as 31kh/100km.
At -30C and cabin heat at set at 22C auto the resistance heater is pulling 4.1- 5 Kw/hr on average all the time. The cold related resistance to the driveline, higher air friction, windspeed and winter road conditions do a huge number on consumption.

Probably the worst consumption I have seen yet. Petro Can must love you. Maybe when they start getting some competition they will allow petro points as they do with fossil fuels (not much , but some incentive)
Edit:
correction - this is the worst (101 kWh/100km):

 

[Tim94549]

I had consistently been getting 231-234 mile SOC at 80% .. Last week I charged from 20% to 79% and got 222 miles. Funny thing is that if my SOC before charging is higher (e.g., 30%), I tend to get more miles when charging completes. The latest BMS update no longer charges to 80, even though I set it to 80%. It always NOW stops at 79%. I don't usually charge to 100% so not sure what that SOC figure would look like now. The 1-2 times I did it prior to the BMS update I actually got 300-310 miles.

 

[apu]

P
correction - this is the worst (101 kWh/100km):

Holy Hanna that would equal just 38 minutes of drive time on a full charge!!

 

[Wildeyed]

I currently have a huge range reduction but its all temperature related, has been in the -30C range last few days. As you may note in the attached picture my GOM is indicating 189km(118 miles) range with a 85% SOC( average consumption of 3km/kw(1.8 miles/kw) . This actually correlates to an accurate real range estimate. Did a recent highway trip of 234km actual travel on a full 100% and I had to drive at 95 km/hr(59mph) with heat set as low as possible without the windows freezing up for half the trip so I could make it. Prior to the cold snap I did a full run from 100 to 1% SOC and verified my battery capacity is as nominally rated, consumption is the real issue not battery capacity. I am seeing consumption figures are as high as 31kw/100km.
At -30C and cabin heat at set at 22C auto the resistance heater is pulling 4.1- 5 Kw/hr on average all the time. The cold related resistance to the driveline, higher air friction, windspeed and winter road conditions do a huge number on consumption.

Wow, that's really low. I've certainly driven in similar conditions and never got that low. Jeez, I hope I never see my own drop like that. Of course, I also hope to never see -28C again either!

 

[apu]

Wow, that's really low. I've certainly driven in similar conditions and never got that low. Jeez, I hope I never see my own drop like that. Of course, I also hope to never see -28C again either!

I have a short reprieve, today it’s only -5C and my highway consumption at same speed and road conditions is back to a more reasonable 5.2km/km(3.25 miles/kw). Still not great but I will take it.

 

[Wildeyed]

I have a short reprieve, today it’s only -5C and my highway consumption at same speed and road conditions is back to a more reasonable 5.2km/km(3.25 miles/kw). Still not great but I will take it.

I suppose we just cross our fingers and wear layers.

 

[apu]

Got a little nippy with the polar vortex buisness. -31C ambient, -42C with the windchill, looks like the battery pack chilled down to -22C, I don't think i have ever seen it that low. Surprised the battery heater lets it get that cold, it probably did not have much choice. Im out of town so it was plugged into the granny EVSE overnight, still taking a slow charge ok. Power output was ok. The newish motor whines in the cold, oh well unless it starts doing in in more reasonable temperatures i will suck it up as i just want to avoid the dealer as much as i can at this point. Consumption crazy high, i think spent 4% SOC to travel the first few km today with the car heating up concurrently full blast.

.

 

[electriceddy]

Got a little nippy with the polar vortex buisness. -31C ambient, -42C with the windchill, looks like the battery pack chilled down to -22C, I don't think i have ever seen it that low. Surprised the battery heater lets it get that cold, it probably did not have much choice. Im out of town so it was plugged into the granny EVSE overnight, still taking a slow charge ok. Power output was ok. The newish motor whines in the cold, oh well unless it starts doing in in more reasonable temperatures i will suck it up as i just want to avoid the dealer as much as i can at this point. Consumption crazy high, i think spent 4% SOC to travel the first few km today with the car heating up concurrently full blast.

.View attachment 10638

Looks like the battery heater is working hard to try to offset the frigid conditions. Definitely at the lower limit of usage and you are wise in trickle charging. Permanent capacity loss may occur and is proportional to the speed at which the cells are charged :
https://electronics.stackexchange.c...atteries-in-cold-temperatures-would-harm-them
Curious to see the consumption numbers on your trip home, may it be a safe one.

 

[KiwiME]

Glad to see TP deployed in such severe conditions. I assume that the battery heater had just switched on (being at 127°C) and that requires Winter Mode to be engaged? This is a situation where starting TP logging would be useful as we could see how fast and how effectively the battery heater warms the pack. I understand that even when parked the Bolt will warm the battery off its own power at such low temps.

... The newish motor whines in the cold ...

In my opinion the whine is actually the sound of thick, cold oil cavitating when it passes through the gear mesh, a situation a thin synthetic would help, like an ATF. I don't think it's particularly harmful unless you were hammering it though and it would warm up in a few minutes.

 

[Bruce M.]

I've had no reduction since the last update. My GOM currently shows 62% and 180 miles, which works out to about 290 fully charged

 

[FloridaSun]

My Kona EV had a recent update and recall work done before Christmas. Since then my range has reduced significantly as has achievable miles/kWh.

I’m aware of the impact of winter temperatures - this is my second winter with the Kona and 5 years of EV ownership.

Even so GOM at 100% now rarely exceeds 225 miles. Miles/kWh rarely exceeds 3.6. My driving style has not changed and last winter I was getting much higher range and efficiency.

I drive some long distances and early Jan did a round trip of about 560 miles in a weekend. During this I verified my actual range was close to the GOM prediction of around 225. Lots of motorway at at around 65mph. Similar drive in August (at summer temperatures) achieved a real range of about 270 again at near motorway speeds. Again GOM was pretty close.

Interested in others thoughts and experiences. I wondered if the recent update has caused the reduction which seems excessive even for winter.

Thanks for reading this far!!


Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs

Where I live, we are having the coldest winter in probably a decade.. I'm in Florida and we had temperatures as low as 34 F (1 C) in the morning and highs not getting out of the 50's (< 15C). Luckiliy, today was nice at upper 70's for the high (24 - 25C) and lows around 60 F (15C). The colder the winter is, the worse your range will be.. So far, I have not used the heater (except for testing it to see that it works) since I bought the car.. Car is in the garage and even if it's in the 30's outside, the car is never too cold when I leave my garage and it's not cooling down too much while driving.. However, if you live an an area where you use the heater or heated seats etc., you will see a lot less range the colder it gets.. So, in a cold winter, you will see 25 - 35% or even more range reduction due to use of heating/battery heater etc..
Also, if you use winter tires, they will take another 5 - 10% off your range IN ADDITION to the heater... Cold weather is the biggest enemy of range..

 

[apu]

Looks like the battery heater is working hard to try to offset the frigid conditions. Definitely at the lower limit of usage and you are wise in trickle charging. Permanent capacity loss may occur and is proportional to the speed at which the cells are charged :
https://electronics.stackexchange.c...atteries-in-cold-temperatures-would-harm-them
Curious to see the consumption numbers on your trip home, may it be a safe one.

Yes, I was reading an article on the battery university site, basically implying a lithium battery could manage up to a 0.02C charge rate at -30C.
0.02C would put it right at 1.3 kw/hr which my portable 120V EVSE will never exceed. Presumably the BMS can also self regulate incoming charge at these temperature extremes.

In my opinion the whine is actually the sound of thick, cold oil cavitating when it passes through the gear mesh, a situation a thin synthetic would help, like an ATF. I don't think it's particularly harmful unless you were hammering it though and it would warm up in a few minutes.

I suspect this may be the case I am just a little thrown off with the noise presence as my original motor was silent in similar temperature extremes. So far in more reasonable temperatures the new motor has been very quiet. I suppose if its an actual problem it will get worse and declare itself eventually.

 

[apu]

Well I have another interesting data point. I plugged in my slow charge EVSE at the hotel i was staying last night at 62% SOC and was surprised when in the morning the car was no longer charging and reported via bluetooth 100% SOC and 253 km range. Torque pro had disconnected at some point in the night and i didnt feel sufficiently motivated to reinitiate the bluetooth connection by manually restarting the car in -32C ambient . It wasn't until i drove 5 minites to my jobsite 4km away that I realised that the dash SOC dropped to 91%, GOM range of 178 km but TP was actually reporting a BMS SOC of 71%.

So obviously at some point the battery got cold enough that the BMS shut down even slow charging at 1.3kw/hr(12 amp 120V setting). I am curious why it then decides to tell the driver porky pies about the real SOC? I alm also curious if the lowest 8 amp setting on the portable evse would have kept the charging party going in the Siberian temperatures?

Now that i think about it i think the reason i have never seen such low pack temperatures in the past is because i have always been plugged into my 240V EVSE at home during low temperature extremes. I suspect if you just use the granny EVSE or no charger in extreme lows this is what you can expect and yes i had my winter mode on.

Sent from my SM-G955W using Inside EVs mobile app

 

[R P]

I think EVs need an Extreme Winter mode for cars they sell in extreme winter climate areas like Manitoba.

 

[electriceddy]

Well I have another interesting data point. I plugged in my slow charge EVSE at the hotel i was staying last night at 62% SOC and was surprised when in the morning the car was no longer charging and reported via bluetooth 100% SOC and 253 km range. Torque pro had disconnected at some point in the night and i didnt feel sufficiently motivated to reinitiate the bluetooth connection by manually restarting the car in -32C ambient . It wasn't until i drove 5 minites to my jobsite 4km away that I realised that the dash SOC dropped to 91%, GOM range of 178 km but TP was actually reporting a BMS SOC of 71%.

So obviously at some point the battery got cold enough that the BMS shut down even slow charging at 1.3kw/hr(12 amp 120V setting). I am curious why it then decides to tell the driver porky pies about the real SOC? I alm also curious if the lowest 8 amp setting on the portable evse would have kept the charging party going in the Siberian temperatures?

Now that i think about it i think the reason i have never seen such low pack temperatures in the past is because i have always been plugged into my 240V EVSE at home during low temperature extremes. I suspect if you just use the granny EVSE or no charger in extreme lows this is what you can expect and yes i had my winter mode on.View attachment 10645

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What does the -74 degrees display (the one beside heater temp 1 - its cut off slightly)? Is that heater temp 2? Maybe a defective sensor?

 

[apu]

What does the -74 degrees display (the one beside heater temp 1 - its cut off slightly)? Is that heater temp 2? Maybe a defective sensor?

I don't know what those heater numbes really represent, I have seen it claim -120 C which entirely doubt. I don't think its a faulty sensor more than a misinterpreted value by TP. I usually look at the battery inlet temperature to see if there is any battery heater activity.

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