Price paid, plus dealer info

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dnb said:
Yep with how fast the PHEV tech is changing (and hey in 3 years it might be ready for all electric) I figured renting first would be a good option :). I'm digging my Clarity so far though, just wish Solar was cheap to install in CA :D
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I doubt in 3 years there will be significant subsidies for EVs. As they get better and cheaper and more competitive, the subsidies will shrink, so I won't count on being able to get a better deal in 3 years.
 
Agzand said:
I doubt in 3 years there will be significant subsidies for EVs. As they get better and cheaper and more competitive, the subsidies will shrink, so I won't count on being able to get a better deal in 3 years.
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@Agzand - This is true and can be seen from past experience.
When I got into the first gen clean diesel cars, I found the incentives were just as good as today's Clarity incentive.
Now, if you want the same diesel, they do not have any subsidies.
I figure in a few years when PHEV is now "old tech" for alternative fuel/drive there will be water or nuclear engine to replace...
 
Agzand said:
I doubt in 3 years there will be significant subsidies for EVs. As they get better and cheaper and more competitive, the subsidies will shrink, so I won't count on being able to get a better deal in 3 years.
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Not necessarily incentives but overall change in cars... I mean the Clarity didn't even exist 3 years ago :)
 
Would someone please help us estimate the cost per mile to operate the PHEV Clarity?

(we're quantitatively-challenged LADWP customers)

It apparently costs DWP customers approximately 18.7 cents per kilowatt hour. So, rounded up, that's 20 cents per kilowatt hour. We're trying to estimate the maximum worst case scenario cost to drive the Clarity's total range of approximately 340 miles (the 47 miles battery-only and the remaining miles via the ICE). We'd drive combined city and freeway, no faster on the freeway than 70 mph.

Thanks very much in advance!
 
MGT said:
Would someone please help us estimate the cost per mile to operate the PHEV Clarity?

(we're quantitatively-challenged LADWP customers)

It apparently costs DWP customers approximately 18.7 cents per kilowatt hour. So, rounded up, that's 20 cents per kilowatt hour. We're trying to estimate the maximum worst case scenario cost to drive the Clarity's total range of approximately 340 miles (the 47 miles battery-only and the remaining miles via the ICE). We'd drive combined city and freeway, no faster on the freeway than 70 mph.

Thanks very much in advance!
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If you go to fueleconomy.gov, they have operating cost estimate for all cars. For Clarity you use 31 kWh per 100 miles for 47 miles and 42 miles per gallon after that.
 
Agzand said:
I doubt in 3 years there will be significant subsidies for EVs. As they get better and cheaper and more competitive, the subsidies will shrink, so I won't count on being able to get a better deal in 3 years.
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It is all government driven.
1. The current tax credits are going to run out for most major makers which have been in the market nowadays.
2. Without a revolution in battery technology, you will not find much better EVs 3 years later, I don't see it to happen at least in 3~5 years.
3. The driving cost for EVs has no advantage comparing with gas Vehicles at least in CA.
Without the government incentives, this market is going down for sure. But, governments always do thing without thinking of costs, the only way EV market could hold till the next great invention happens, is more credits. Yes, more credits.
The next few years will be tough for EV makers, but who knows what is going to happen next?
I really think my clarity is really a good buy at this moment, because I got almost 10K off the whole price, which probably no one will be able to get any more after 3 years from now.
 
Just looking for some feedback for this offer. I am in Southern California and this is for a base model clarity plug in.

Price 30,500.00

2,905.57 Tax

85.00 Document Fee

22.00 Car pool lane sticker

446.00 DMV registration

7.00 New tire fee

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33,965.57



Invoice is 32,923.78 - 1,000 incentive to finance - 668.00 Hold back = my cost 31,255.78 + wheel locks and door edge guards that I can throw in.
 
DuarteES said:
Just looking for some feedback for this offer. I am in Southern California and this is for a base model clarity plug in.

Price 30,500.00

2,905.57 Tax

85.00 Document Fee

22.00 Car pool lane sticker

446.00 DMV registration

7.00 New tire fee

-----------------------------------------------

33,965.57



Invoice is 32,923.78 - 1,000 incentive to finance - 668.00 Hold back = my cost 31,255.78 + wheel locks and door edge guards that I can throw in.
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Seems like a great deal for SoCal......I got my base @ $30,000 (no extras) & around $32,708 otd last month.

Few other members got on this price too

Sent from my SM-N960U using Inside EVs mobile app
 
Another question:

Should we lease the Clarity PHEV or purchase it? We've got 50,000 miles on our 2016 Honda Civic EX L Turbo coupe, purchased new in July 2016.

We would fairly quickly exceed the mileage limits for leasing unless we purchased extra miles up front.
 
MGT said:
Another question:

Should we lease the Clarity PHEV or purchase it? We've got 50,000 miles on our 2016 Honda Civic EX L Turbo coupe, purchased new in July 2016.

We would fairly quickly exceed the mileage limits for leasing unless we purchased extra miles up front.
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If you lease you can take the $7600 Honda incentive immediately instead of waiting till 2020 to claim it on your federal taxes if you financed or bought it cash.
By leasing, you get the lowest per month rate for 3 years and then decide at the end of the lease term to keep it or turn it back in - best choice to have for a new tech car that just came out.

I leased mine and using the discounts, it's $300/month in So Cal.
If you are northeast, your payment would be in the low $200/month.

You can also ask for the 15K miles per year lease and still be within your driving habits.

The best part of leasing: at the end of 3 years you can determine if you want to keep the car because of the great resale value vs contracted residual and buy it out or else if it has problems or issues you are not happy with, turn her back in.
 
4sallypat said:
If you lease you can take the $7600 Honda incentive immediately instead of waiting till 2020 to claim it on your federal taxes if you financed or bought it cash.
By leasing, you get the lowest per month rate for 3 years and then decide at the end of the lease term to keep it or turn it back in - best choice to have for a new tech car that just came out.

I leased mine and using the discounts, it's $300/month in So Cal.
If you are northeast, your payment would be in the low $200/month.

You can also ask for the 15K miles per year lease and still be within your driving habits.

The best part of leasing: at the end of 3 years you can determine if you want to keep the car because of the great resale value vs contracted residual and buy it out or else if it has problems or issues you are not happy with, turn her back in.
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Thank you!
 
More leasing questions:

I’ve generally purchased cars to keep for 10+ years, and always assumed leasing was a bad deal -- but then again I assumed all PHEVs were expensive and exotic until hearing about the Clarity. But crunching the numbers, the Clarity California lease offer is intriguing if used as a financing vehicle to purchase the car at the end, even compared to the 0.9% financing offer. The primary savings comes from effectively getting a discount up front instead of the federal tax rebate next year -- and from thus not paying sales tax on that discount (which more than offsets the extra sales tax you pay on the interest portion of the lease payment). That in addition to assuming alternate investments can do better than what appears to be equivalent to a 0.5% interest rate. I made a spreadsheet comparing side by side outright cash purchase vs loan financing vs lease that I can make available after I clean it up.

Having said that, since I’ve never negotiated a lease before, some questions for anyone (ideally in CA or OR) who’s taken advantage of this or a similar lease offer from Honda:

  • If you seek out/negotiate the best price for the car (I usually do that by email to many dealers), is it reasonable to expect they can then apply that price to the lease offer reducing the capitalized cost and thus payments, but using the same money factor, residual etc? Or is a lease offer like that a take-it-or-leave-it using the original MSRP?
  • What are the turn-in fees in your contract? My plan would be to purchase the car at the end (in which case the residual is the only cost, right?), but another advantage to leasing seems to be the option to turn it in if we don’t still love the car and the actual value is less than the contract residual minus turn-in, mileage, wear-and-tear, etc fees.
  • Does the contract call out what happens for an early end (either buyout or turnin)? Is that kind of buyout predetermined by the contract residual plus remaining amortized depreciation payments, or do they have the right to determine a new actual residual value (which could be much higher or lower) if it’s not end of lease?
  • Any other pitfalls I’m missing?
 
JCA said:
More leasing questions:

I’ve generally purchased cars to keep for 10+ years, and always assumed leasing was a bad deal -- but then again I assumed all PHEVs were expensive and exotic until hearing about the Clarity. But crunching the numbers, the Clarity California lease offer is intriguing if used as a financing vehicle to purchase the car at the end, even compared to the 0.9% financing offer. The primary savings comes from effectively getting a discount up front instead of the federal tax rebate next year -- and from thus not paying sales tax on that discount (which more than offsets the extra sales tax you pay on the interest portion of the lease payment). That in addition to assuming alternate investments can do better than what appears to be equivalent to a 0.5% interest rate. I made a spreadsheet comparing side by side outright cash purchase vs loan financing vs lease that I can make available after I clean it up.

Having said that, since I’ve never negotiated a lease before, some questions for anyone (ideally in CA or OR) who’s taken advantage of this or a similar lease offer from Honda:

  • If you seek out/negotiate the best price for the car (I usually do that by email to many dealers), is it reasonable to expect they can then apply that price to the lease offer reducing the capitalized cost and thus payments, but using the same money factor, residual etc? Or is a lease offer like that a take-it-or-leave-it using the original MSRP?
  • What are the turn-in fees in your contract? My plan would be to purchase the car at the end (in which case the residual is the only cost, right?), but another advantage to leasing seems to be the option to turn it in if we don’t still love the car and the actual value is less than the contract residual minus turn-in, mileage, wear-and-tear, etc fees.
  • Does the contract call out what happens for an early end (either buyout or turnin)? Is that kind of buyout predetermined by the contract residual plus remaining amortized depreciation payments, or do they have the right to determine a new actual residual value (which could be much higher or lower) if it’s not end of lease?
  • Any other pitfalls I’m missing?
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There are acquisition and disposition fees, buyout value is negotiable, but in case of Clarity I don't think you can get lower in 3 years. Also check for other incentives in your area (state, utility) and make sure you are eligible if you lease. Also dealers offer different prices for purchase, financing using Honda Financial, other financing and lease.
 
Bought the replacement for my totaled Clarity last week at Sons Honda in McDonough, Georgia. Touring price before TTL was $35,699, including trunk tray, wheel locks, and mud guards (didn't have the mud guards on the previous Clarity). Even without a trade I ended up paying less for this one than the one I replaced, and qualified again for 1.9% for 60 months - there's also now 2.9% over 72 months, which Honda wasn't offering a few months ago.

Granted not the sort of deal you can get in CARB states but shopping around it doesn't look like you can get one out the door much lower in the southeast.
 
I'll add another data point for non-ZEV state.
$34,250 OTD for a base model in the Tampa Bay Area (FL)
Price Included all weather mats, cargo trunk tray, mud guards, wheel locks, window tinting (need to take it back so the dealer can do it), 2 year free maintenance and lifetime powertrain warranty.

I think it's a decent deal for a non CARB state considering we have the absolute worst doc fees here in Florida!
 
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