If it was assumed that I wanted answers, why were so few provided?
Sorry for yet another question.
PHEVs to Rule Trucks?
- Thread starter David Towle
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If it was assumed that I wanted answers, why were so few provided?
Sorry for yet another question.
I feel that I provided you answers, and ways to verify them. Feel free to ask if you feel I didn't properly answer a question.
There are a few unanswered questions from posts 141, 151 and 160, in addition to our disagreement on what constitutes a wide or narrow torque band.
It’s probably not worth your time to respond or my time to read your responses. The choice is yours.
In an attempt to steer back toward the topic of this thread, I am enjoying our Jeep GC 4xe and look forward to taking possession of a Ramcharger when they become available. In the two years of driving the Jeep, I’ve never felt compelled to join a forum and dork out over what makes the car tick. It just works and I hope the Ramcharger performs similarly.
For the record, I had to take testosterone suppressants for a while after I heard that they were putting a normally aspirated 3.6l V-6 under the hood. It just doesn’t get more macho than that.
David Towle
Well-Known Member
Yes the band is very narrow, why I have no idea when there is both so much electric regen and propulsion available to supplement EDM. My experience is, on a highway at 65-70 mph in cruise control:
1) In winter in New England (hilly) the car will stay in EDM about 10% of the time
2) In summer in New England it will stay in EDM mode about 40% of the time
3) In Florida (flat) anytime it will stay in EDM mode 90% of the time.
That's really weird. Above 45mph engine drive is on probably 90% of the time, excluding cold weather. I can go to the click point on the accelerator pedal in eco mode before engine drive is disengaged, sometimes drawing like 90+kWh from the battery.
Dan Albrich
Well-Known Member
Since the thread departed and went to engine drive mode, I'll add: When I bought my Clarity, for at least six months my Clarity *never* did engine drive mode. During that time, driving in HV mode would consistently drain my EV range. I didn't know HV mode was supposed to preserve EV range. Never did on my car, and I never saw the gear icon others talked about in this forum. KentuckyKen suggested I reboot my car (disconnect the 12v) battery which I did do. And whallah, I saw the gear icon for the first time. Importantly, HV mode on my car (mostly) preserves EV range now too.
With the Clarity, Honda prioritized efficiency. It’s possible that disengaging EDM under certain conditions, is more efficient than keeping EDM engaged and supplementing with batteries.
Our Clarity displayed similar characteristics to yours. However, we have had some owners report behavior that is quite peculiar to the norm. Perhaps the “reboot” restores corrupt software?
David Towle
Well-Known Member
Maybe its efficient but its annoying, switching frequently from relatively low engine rpm tied to road speed to random speeds unrelated to road speed. I still think Honda didn't give the engineers enough time to tune the system for the full range of conditions (cruise control too). They may have thought they'd go back to it later for an update, but then when the car turned out to be a sales dog the bean counters said no more investment in this product.
NorCalPete
Active Member
Thought I might try to nudge this thread back onto its original topic...
For the past year, the 2025 Ram REV and Ramcharger have been looking more like "vapertrucks" rather than actually production vehicles available for purchase this year (REV) and early next year (Ramcharger). Stellantis finally released some production information on these trucks -- Car and Driver recently reported which plants will be building them and how much Stellantis will be investing in three factories to make this happen:
This has reignited my hope that the Ramcharger might actually become available for purchase during the next year. Next on my wish list? Some info about trim levels and prices.
For the past year, the 2025 Ram REV and Ramcharger have been looking more like "vapertrucks" rather than actually production vehicles available for purchase this year (REV) and early next year (Ramcharger). Stellantis finally released some production information on these trucks -- Car and Driver recently reported which plants will be building them and how much Stellantis will be investing in three factories to make this happen:
On September 11 Car and Driver said:
This has reignited my hope that the Ramcharger might actually become available for purchase during the next year. Next on my wish list? Some info about trim levels and prices.
While not official, some auto/truck magazines have estimated prices from $60K-78K in various trim levels starting with the Tradesman up to the Titanium. Personally, I’d be surprised if the Ramcharger is offered in the Tradesman trim, but I don’t run a multinational automobile manufacturing company. If those estimates are accurate, the Titanium could likely be optioned up to $90K or more.
Some good news is that the assembly plant location should qualify trucks below $80K MSRP for $3,750 of the Fed tax credit. Stellantis sources their batteries from China, so the battery probably won’t qualify for the other $3,750.
I have seem a number of new Ram trucks being offered at significant discounts. However, I don’t expect the Ramcharger to be sold for less than MSRP.
The variable engine speeds likely aren’t random. It is an odd sensation, more disconcerting than any CVT for sure. And Clarity owners have been disturbed by this occurrence even when a transition from EDM is not involved.
The crux of the problem is that the motor is receiving input from 2 sources. If battery output is at max, or is being restricted for some reason, the engine/generator jumps in to make up the difference. In some cases it could be perceived that the engine is overreacting, trying to meet immediate power demand and restore SOC ASAP. Software improvements may be able to reduce that sensation. Meet power demands, yes, then just take a little bit more time to restore SOC once the heat is off.
Stellantis has eliminated that issue in the Ramcharger by using the battery as the only input to the motor. It also uses a much larger battery. What happens when the battery is depleted is anyone’s guess at this point because the generator output alone, to the battery, may not be sufficient to meet power demands.
My experience with our Clarity going in and out of EDM, was that it was mostly undetectable. When acceleration was called for that would disengage EDM, the engine would rev up in the same manner as when accelerating without EDM being engaged.
Stellantis has said that the ICE will be “intuitive” in the Ramcharger. I’ve speculated that the engine/generator will downshift on acceleration and then shift through gears in similar fashion to a conventional vehicle. There is sufficient battery and generator capacity to allow for that. Whereas the Clarity is on the rivet under the same circumstances.
"Stellantis has eliminated that issue in the Ramcharger by using the battery as the only input to the motor" This doesn't make much sense to me. If it's a series hybrid, then it would have to share the traction motor with the battery, really no way around that. If I had to guess, by "intuitive" behavior, they probably are just going to corelate engine rpm more with the accelerator, and might add fake shifts/correlation with speed as well. I would be extraordinary surprised if they didn't use the engine to provide excess power to the battery, it really doesn't make much sense to not do that.
"Whereas the Clarity is on the rivet under the same circumstances" Unless the battery is getting really low, not really. If Honda wanted to they could easily implement fake shifts into the clarity, there is more than enough battery output capacity to do so (max output is about 120HP), they could get away with the engine running at like 3000-4000RPM, perhaps less, at wide open throttle, and still have enough power to accelerate the car as fast as it can. There really isn't much of a technical reason as to why the engine revs to peak power when floored dispite plenty of power being available, other than it being really lame not hearing much engine sound at WOT.
In the Ramcharger “All of the power to the wheels is coming from the battery, through the EDM’s, out to the wheels”.
Doug Killian, Chief Vehicle Synthesis Manager at Stellantis
We share the same speculation.
Under ideal conditions, it’s possible, with some changes. That said, there isn’t much excess available power from the battery and generator to meet the needs of a 181hp motor. As mentioned, if battery output is being restricted for any reason, battery temperature, SOC, discharge rate, etc, then more output from the generator will be required to meet a call for power.
The car never failed to get us over a mountain or to our destination. It just does its job in a manner to which most of us are not accustomed. And that seems to be the reason for most complaints. “It works, but I don’t like the way it works”.
"The car never failed to get us over a mountain or to our destination. It just does its job in a manner to which most of us are not accustomed. And that seems to be the reason for most complaints. “It works, but I don’t like the way it works” Absolutely agree with you here.
There is about 40 HP to spare. 120+103=223 total horsepower of the engine and battery combined.
Before moving forward, can we confirm that you now have a clear understanding of the power delivery system on the Ramcharger?
You had stated previously that my description didn’t “make much sense” to you, so I was hoping that someone from Stellantis might do a better job of helping you understand.
Let’s take care of that old business before moving on to the new.
Actually it does no such thing. YOu have a battery, you have a motor controller, you have a motor. The electric motor is not really ever connected to the battery. Since many EVs use AC motors, that much should be obvious.
Uh, yes, it is? I mean not directly, it's going through an inverter, and associated components.
Perhaps that is what you mean, but that is not what you posted.
NorCalPete
Active Member
A Ramcharger chassis was on display at a Texas State Fair Auto Show. This video provides a quick look at it. Odd that it would quietly appear there while Stellantis Marketing continues to be mostly silent about this truck.
I wondered if Stellantis would spend the massive bucks to develop this unique serial-hybrid platform and then use it for only a single vehicle. These bloggers suggest it would fit the Jeep Grand Wagoneer, too.
Perhaps, Stellantis' silence indicates they won't be ready to mass-produce the Ram 1500 Ramcharger as soon as they hoped.