Once again Chevy Bolts hogging chargers

[OneEV]

The first charging plug not working. The 3 vehicles in front are al using 350kW chargers ..including the 2 chevy blts. The backside chargers are 100kW..the Bolts should be on the backside .

I waited almost 20 minutes ..the faster charging vehicles on the far side couldnt get to peak on the 100kW so it takes them longer to charge. I waited about 20 minutes before I got a charger.. the Chevy Bolt right infront of spot. he had charged to 100% and it took 106 minutes !.

..Uber driver (I drive uber as well and also drove the bolt for 3 years)... At the time the fastest charger in my area was 50kW so,it was what it was.

Once he left (20 minutes) I spent 6 minutes and 40 seconds and added a quick 75 miles I need to make it to my desination in St Cloud Mn. So really spent almsot half hour all because of the Chevy Bolts..

And the thing is they have around 25 50kW chargers they could have used..

We really need legislation that (kind of like federal mpg guidlines) that all new EVs must be able to accept a mininum of 10-150kW ..something like that. For one thing that will prevent GM from reiintroducing the Bolt on 2025/26 with the same charging speedds it has now ..AND prevents Companies from bring to market new micor evs with slow DCFC ..

The problem is that the rate of DCFC installs is NOT and cannot keep pace with all the new EVs coming to market. So the fast speed 150-350kW chargers need to be open for ONLY the vehicles that cna use those speeds .. IMO Humble opinion

I would at this time like to thank all my new Friends and Enemies for participating in my rant

 

[marshall]

If the 100 kW chargers where in use when the Bolts pulled in, then they have every right to use another other available charger.

Not knowing why the Bolt was charging to 100%, I can't say if they were rude, ignorant, live in an apartment, or needed a full charge to get where they where going.

It is what it is. When you get your Tesla adapter it may help some. Unfortunately, the adapter won't work on the old V2 Tesla superchargers, which are too often located at some pretty desirable locations in your area.

 

[bwilson4web]

The only times I've felt charging resentment were at CCS-1 stations. In contrast, all SuperCharging lanes are equal.

My second EV, a BMW i3-REx, has a maximum charge rate of 50 kW. But its 25 kW range extender runs even while rolling. My city car, it charges L2 at home or shopping.

Bob Wilson

 

[OneEV]

If the 100 kW chargers where in use when the Bolts pulled in, then they have every right to use another other available charger.

Not knowing why the Bolt was charging to 100%, I can't say if they were rude, ignorant, live in an apartment, or needed a full charge to get where they where going.

It is what it is. When you get your Tesla adapter it may help some. Unfortunately, the adapter won't work on the old V2 Tesla superchargers, which are too often located at some pretty desirable locations in your area.

Morning Marshall, yes they do.

The problem is they dont even know the difference between 100kW and 350kW and what it means for the different vehicles. I spoke withone of the Bolt owners yesterday. He had no idea and funnily enough he said" dealer told me "I could charge at any CCS". so it comes back to education.

When I got my Bolt whever I ran across the rare 100kW (when mosty were still 50kW)I also thought it would make my car charge faster !So I know exactly whats going on. Again it's education. A lot of Bolt buyers are Uber drivers , I know because I see them everywhere, in my Driver app Uber Pushes the Chevy Bolt .incentifies drivers to buy them.We(Uber Drivers) are the absolute WORSE group of buyers for the Bolt because they NEED to use DCFC during the day and we need a lot of chargers. There are roughly 15-20K Uber drivers in Minneapolis/St Paul ,and a real shortage of DCFC chargng (150-350).. This is the totallity of DCFC faster than150kW) in the Minneapolis area..

You see the problem.. We have Uber/Lyft pushing Drivers(15k-20K) to drive EV's ,worse we have them pushing Chevy Bolts the slowest charging EV on the market . No one is teaching them about the realities of charging the Chevy Bolt or about the etiquette of DCFC charging. to top it off a large percentage of these drivers are immagrants (the rate is around 70% in Minnesota) that live in apt complexes without home charging.

Not thier fault they dont know , no one is teaching them. Certianly not the dealers that are simply moving vehicles out the door. I talk to them (as well as other Bolt drivers ..hows it going taking a long time the charger Hey, yeah I owned Bolt 3 years , great little car would never go back because of the charging etc. all the time when I am at the Chargers. Most are grateful to learn.If you driving Uber with an EV the Bolt is generally the worst vehicle if you dont have home charging) , charging to 100% no matter which vehicle is pointless as speeds slow down, especially with the Bolt , you're talking another 30 to 95 minutes from 80% to 100% (Minnesota winter).

Anyway you see my rant, Not anywhere near enough fast Chargers and a few thousand Ubers driving the Bolt is just making it worse. Kind of like when all the ID 4's were hogging stations charing to 100% because it was "Free" .(new 30 minute ri=ule took care of that ).

The handful of 150-350kW in Minneapolis metro are always busy and knowing Uber and dealers are pushing Uber Drivers into the Bolt is irratating .

I'd love to see Legislation at the Federal level that all new EVs at leat 100kW preferable at least 150kW charging capabilities.

 

[OneEV]

So you can see from my Uber drivers app how tey keep pushing these slow charging Bolts on Uber drivers clogging the DCFCs..

"There are over 1.7 million rideshare drivers in the U.S., mostly split up between Uber and Lyft drivers. Uber has roughly 1 million drivers, whereas Lyft has 700,000"



So, you see hw that can be a very very big problem considering drivers are putting on between 150-450 miles per day.

I'd RATHER see AARP pushing the Chevy Bolts to Retirees! That drive 50 miles a week and rarely using DCFC

 

[insightman]

I'd love to see Legislation at the Federal level that all new EVs at leat 100kW preferable at least 150kW charging capabilities.

I'd be happy if all the charging stations worked all the time. It would be nice if federal regs could penalize companies with persistently broken charging stations, but gas stations with broken pumps aren't penalized, so I doubt such penalties will happen.

 

[marshall]

So you can see from my Uber drivers app how tey keep pushing these slow charging Bolts on Uber drivers clogging the DCFCs..

View attachment 22445
"There are over 1.7 million rideshare drivers in the U.S., mostly split up between Uber and Lyft drivers. Uber has roughly 1 million drivers, whereas Lyft has 700,000"



So, you see hw that can be a very very big problem considering drivers are putting on between 150-450 miles per day.

I'd RATHER see AARP pushing the Chevy Bolts to Retirees! That drive 50 miles a week and rarely using DCFC

Well you should be able to charge at the Tesla V3 locations sometime this year. The federal government should be sending money out soon too to build more charging locations.

Didn't Uber and Lyft say they were going to pull out of Minneapolis? That hasn't happened yet? At 150 miles or more, those Bolts won't last more than 3 years. So time will fix some of it too.

Education is something you can help with. Maybe you can show them the charging curve for their vehicle, and provide them links to forums for their type of vehicle. One of the sayings: "... You either have to be part of the solution, or you're going to be part of the problem."

 

[Puppethead]

Didn't Uber and Lyft say they were going to pull out of Minneapolis? That hasn't happened yet?

The Minneapolis wage ordinance, that Lyft and Uber are throwing a tantrum over, just got delayed until July 1st implementation. But there are a bunch of other ride share companies looking to move into the market so the existing drivers will have other logos to stick on their vehicles.

I'm really surprised there isn't DCFC charging options at MSP airport yet considering that's a prime stop for ride share.

 

[bwilson4web]

Driving left to right, my return from the eclipse:

It was a cool and damp day: 50 F; windy from North, and; drizzle:

• Byhalia - single CCS-1 in use so did an L2 charge while feeding and walking the dogs. Charged enough to reach Tuscumbia.
• Corninth - due to weather, too risky to reach Tuscombia. First J1772 failed so charged at Ford Dealer while getting bowl of chili for early lunch.
• Tuscombia - on CCS-1 charger, got another soup and hot apple pie next door.
• Reached home - no problem on my L2 charger.

Lesson's learned:

• Thanks to GM and Ford corporations, dealers are more open to letting non-customers charge. During the day, some lots are open at night but often closed. Always ask and be friendly without being a pest.
• More new charging locations are showing up and free at restaurants.
• Older chargers are wearing out.

Bob Wilson

 

[OneEV]

I'd be happy if all the charging stations worked all the time. It would be nice if federal regs could penalize companies with persistently broken charging stations, but gas stations with broken pumps aren't penalized, so I doubt such penalties will happen.

That as well !

 

[OneEV]

The Minneapolis wage ordinance, that Lyft and Uber are throwing a tantrum over, just got delayed until July 1st implementation. But there are a bunch of other ride share companies looking to move into the market so the existing drivers will have other logos to stick on their vehicles.

I'm really surprised there isn't DCFC charging options at MSP airport yet considering that's a prime stop for ride share.

Yep , thats something Uber/Lyft and Airport should also invest in. I mean if they want us all to drive EVs then maybe they need to but some skinn $$$$$ in the game as well

 

[OneEV]

For rideshare my ID 4 is almostperfect, if I could get another 100 miles of range I would most likely never need DCFC anyways. For me 90% is still @ home charging , just need to DCFC when i go from St Cloud Mn to MSP airport, need to adda few miles on te way home. Not always but sometimes like I needed yesterday. For me the frustations was WAITING 20 minutes for so I could do a quick 6 minute charge and knowing the hold up was the Bolt .. as it is tody with not enough charging infrastrcture (150-350kW).

anyway..just ranting.

One thing that will help is the Chevy Equinox with roughly 320 miles of range IF GM can keep the price down and then PUSH/Market those to Uber drivers instead of the Bolt. Then they all have 150kW charging and great range.

For me in 2 years I may be looking more towards a used Lucid with 400 miles of range. Couple years off for me a lot will probabbly chnage. Equinox is going to be big though , mass adoption EV .. but GM has to keep the price down.

 

[SouthernDude]

View attachment 22433

The first charging plug not working. The 3 vehicles in front are al using 350kW chargers ..including the 2 chevy blts. The backside chargers are 100kW..the Bolts should be on the backside .

I waited almost 20 minutes ..the faster charging vehicles on the far side couldnt get to peak on the 100kW so it takes them longer to charge. I waited about 20 minutes before I got a charger.. the Chevy Bolt right infront of spot. he had charged to 100% and it took 106 minutes !.

..Uber driver (I drive uber as well and also drove the bolt for 3 years)... At the time the fastest charger in my area was 50kW so,it was what it was.

Once he left (20 minutes) I spent 6 minutes and 40 seconds and added a quick 75 miles I need to make it to my desination in St Cloud Mn. So really spent almsot half hour all because of the Chevy Bolts..

And the thing is they have around 25 50kW chargers they could have used..

View attachment 22434




We really need legislation that (kind of like federal mpg guidlines) that all new EVs must be able to accept a mininum of 10-150kW ..something like that. For one thing that will prevent GM from reiintroducing the Bolt on 2025/26 with the same charging speedds it has now ..AND prevents Companies from bring to market new micor evs with slow DCFC ..

The problem is that the rate of DCFC installs is NOT and cannot keep pace with all the new EVs coming to market. So the fast speed 150-350kW chargers need to be open for ONLY the vehicles that cna use those speeds .. IMO Humble opinion

I would at this time like to thank all my new Friends and Enemies for participating in my rant

The conditions are what they are because its still the early days of modern EVs. No amount of legislation will make the existing bolts get out of the market, unless you are willing to take these people's car by force. Having some kind of legislation demanding some minimum charge rate is largely pointless since virtually all new EVs charge at a faster rate than bolts anyways. Secondly, its better to just let the tech that allows for faster charge rates come down in price naturally, considering how expensive EVs are in general. Just charge at your home or find a way to charge at your home.

 

[OneEV]

Just charge at your home or find a way to charge at your home.

I charge at Home 90% of the time as I posted many times. Yes legislation for mininum charging standard would help because it isnt just the Chevy Bolt , it would be to prevent manufacturers from introducing smaller more affordable evs by way of limiting charging (les costsly to make an EV charge at 50kW than 200kW)

So not just for the bolt ..but to also prevent any new slow charging evs being brought to market

IMO there should be a mininum standard.
Waiting 20 minutes for slow charging Bolts that are hogging 350kW is not acceptable..
again there are upto 20,000 Uber drivers in the Minneapolis area , most of them do not have home charging and Uber keeps incentifying drivers to buy the Bolt, 20,000 drivers if just 200 of them drive the Bolt thats 200 drivers that need to charge 1-3 times daily ..
Look at the maopa gain.. this is al the chargers in the Minneaplis are that can charger faster than 150Kw ..thats it .

and 4 of those DCFC are not even up and running yet ..

 

[Puppethead]

Look at the maopa gain.. this is al the chargers in the Minneaplis are that can charger faster than 150Kw ..thats it .

If the problem is Bolts maxing out at 50 kW, isn't this map a more realistic view of the situation? (Still no DCFC at airport...)

 

[SouthernDude]

I charge at Home 90% of the time as I posted many times. Yes legislation for mininum charging standard would help because it isnt just the Chevy Bolt , it would be to prevent manufacturers from introducing smaller more affordable evs by way of limiting charging (les costsly to make an EV charge at 50kW than 200kW)

So not just for the bolt ..but to also prevent any new slow charging evs being brought to market

IMO there should be a mininum standard.
Waiting 20 minutes for slow charging Bolts that are hogging 350kW is not acceptable..
again there are upto 20,000 Uber drivers in the Minneapolis area , most of them do not have home charging and Uber keeps incentifying drivers to buy the Bolt, 20,000 drivers if just 200 of them drive the Bolt thats 200 drivers that need to charge 1-3 times daily ..
Look at the maopa gain.. this is al the chargers in the Minneaplis are that can charger faster than 150Kw ..thats it .

and 4 of those DCFC are not even up and running yet ..

If you are already doing 90% of your charging at home, at worst this is a mild inconvenience to you. Sounds like the problem is the lack of apartment charging more so than DC charging speeds. If the vast majority of the stations near you barely charge at a higher rate, then some law forcing cars to charge at higher speeds wont change anything.

 

[OneEV]

If you are already doing 90% of your charging at home, at worst this is a mild inconvenience to you. Sounds like the problem is the lack of apartment charging more so than DC charging speeds. If the vast majority of the stations near you barely charge at a higher rate, then some law forcing cars to charge at higher speeds wont change anything.

Mild Inconveinence? waiting 20 minutes ot get 6 minute charger..

If the problem is Bolts maxing out at 50 kW, isn't this map a more realistic view of the situation? (Still no DCFC at airport...)

View attachment 22454

Thats what I was saying earlier.. that is WHERE the Bolts should be charging .. There are over 25 50kW chargers ..thats where the Bolts should be charging at instea dof the Handful of 350kW chargers.

Thhis is the correct map of 50kW..

 

[OneEV]

If the vast majority of the stations near you barely charge at a higher rate, then some law forcing cars to charge at higher speeds wont change anything.

??? Ok lets try this .. There is a limited number of FAST DCFC in Minneapolis Metro..covering a total of around 45 Cities in the metro .. there are only 3 that charge with speeds to 350kW.

Now more are FAST DCFC are coming and all the new Vehicles charge at speeds of 150kW to 350kW .

Do you want to see GM , Ford , etc.. introduce MORE EVs that can only charge with a top speed of 50kW so they are "affordable" Do you want millions of slow Charging EVs coming to market ? do you think thats a good thing ?

Legislating a BASE Charging speed would ensure that never happens. The same way that Legislation is WHY we are seeing the transitions to EV's , Legislation is the reason ICE cars must get more MPG every few years (CAFE) standards.

We also need legislation to stop DCFC companies from posting they have 120kW chargers that are really just 60kW chargers ..that one irks me as much if not more. Ever pull up to one of those ? 120kW ..ummm no it's a split system and even if one vehicle you will never get more than 60kW



BTW..what are you driving?

 

[SouthernDude]

Mild Inconveinence? waiting 20 minutes ot get 6 minute charger..

Yeah. Like, one or two times a year will this happen if you do 90% of charging at your home. Hardly a big deal for this interim period in the EV market.

??? Ok lets try this .. There is a limited number of FAST DCFC in Minneapolis Metro..covering a total of around 45 Cities in the metro .. there are only 3 that charge with speeds to 350kW.

Do you want to see GM , Ford , etc.. introduce MORE EVs that can only charge with a top speed of 50kW so they are "affordable" Do you want millions of slow Charging EVs coming to market ? do you think thats a good thing ?

The charging speeds of cars has generally been increasing with newer models. Those models tend to be more expensive. There are few models available that really charge too slow for you. And the more home/apartment charging there is available the less people will use DC chargers anyways. I am not sure what makes the EV battery charge controllers more expensive or if its a battery/bms configuration thing, but it should stand to reason that more EVs being made should make the higher powered ones come down in price eventually.

Would I care if millions of slower charging EVs came into the market this year? No. The whole point is for people to drive EVs right? Its not actually a problem to have multiple different car options for different use cases. You can't lament the lack of city cars but then support legislation that would make an option like that more difficult because you were mildly inconvenienced.

Legislating a BASE Charging speed would ensure that never happens. The same way that Legislation is WHY we are seeing the transitions to EV's , Legislation is the reason ICE cars must get more MPG every few years (CAFE) standards.

That is such an incorrect view of how legislation affects markets - especially for things you want people to buy. There are always unintended consequences with every regulation passed and the problem is that it can take decades to attempt to fix the problem or it never gets fixed. The CAFE standards made it more expensive to make normal sized pickup trucks for the market and it led to auto makers to switch to the oversized trucks you see now because there was a "loophole" in the standard. Except there wasn't a loophole in the standard. Compliance was calculated based on vehicle model footprint and an average fuel economy. This created a bias for larger vehicles not requiring as stringent mpg because its more difficult for these larger vehicles to be more efficient. Then people started buying the larger vehicles over the smaller more efficient ones because the more efficient ones had a higher price.
https://me.engin.umich.edu/news-events/news/cafe-standards-could-mean-bigger-cars-not-smaller-ones/


Secondly, the more fuel efficient ICE becomes, the less competitive EVs will be by comparison. One of the bigger selling points for getting people into EVs now is savings. Making ICE more efficient eats into those savings potential. The increased MPG will also make ICE car ranges longer, which can also have an unintended effect of making people demand far more range from a car generally than what they would otherwise, which makes EVs seem like an inferior product by comparison. If the average ICE range were still 250 mi, a modern EV's range would not seem as low by comparison. Nearly all ICE cars have a range that is greater than 450 miles on a full tank.

So before you start demanding major change with myriad unintended consequences over a mild inconvenience, stop it, get some help. Especially when this is just what is to be expected with a market for a generally new product class.

We also need legislation to stop DCFC companies from posting they have 120kW chargers that are really just 60kW chargers ..that one irks me as much if not more. Ever pull up to one of those ? 120kW ..ummm no it's a split system and even if one vehicle you will never get more than 60kW

I only look at plugshare and am unaware of how large of a problem this actually is. I would also assume that any errors are due to errors entered into plugshare. I don't drive an EV because I am saving money.

 

[Puppethead]

Mild Inconveinence? waiting 20 minutes ot get 6 minute charger..


Thats what I was saying earlier.. that is WHERE the Bolts should be charging .. There are over 25 50kW chargers ..thats where the Bolts should be charging at instea dof the Handful of 350kW chargers.

Thhis is the correct map of 50kW.

I disagree, they should charge at whatever DCFC is most convenient. Most DCFC chargers rarely charge at their advertised rate anyway.