Official Honda statement on availability
- Thread starter DucRider
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2002
Well-Known Member
Understandably your dealer preferred to sell you something on their lot, and when it was clear you only wanted a Clarity they did what they could to get one from another dealer. When they couldn't, did they ask you if you would like to order one and you told them you don't want to wait, or did they not even suggest ordering one?
(from Prices Paid thread)
The Honda incentive is for California and Oregon residents, for some reason I didn't think an out of state purchase would quality but I guess since the car will be registered in Oregon the California dealer still got the incentive (I'll bet they made a phone call to make sure). However you mentioned the dealer said they were going to be selling to someone in Washington next week and also delivering it across the border in Oregon. But I tend do doubt if that sale will qualify for any Honda money even if they take delivery in Oregon, since the car will be registered in Washington which is not a ZEV state (which is what we believe the incentives are all about)
2002,
I spoke with the Oregon dealer who ultimately put us in contact with the CA dealer who sold us the car. I also spoke with a dealer in Eugene that showed one in stock. It had been sold. The Eugene dealer said something to the effect of “We get one in from time to time.” I didn’t take detailed notes on every conversation with every dealer, which ended up being 4 dealers in 2 states. Both Oregon dealers knew the Honda incentive was one of my requirements for the deal. I believe it was apparent that a vehicle could not be ordered and arrive prior to the expiration of the incentive.
The dealer who sold us the car said the Washington buyer wanted to get the car before the incentive expired. It was scheduled for Aug 31. I’m not really concerned about that deal.
Honda’s statement on availability seems to be mostly bologna.
I spoke with the Oregon dealer who ultimately put us in contact with the CA dealer who sold us the car. I also spoke with a dealer in Eugene that showed one in stock. It had been sold. The Eugene dealer said something to the effect of “We get one in from time to time.” I didn’t take detailed notes on every conversation with every dealer, which ended up being 4 dealers in 2 states. Both Oregon dealers knew the Honda incentive was one of my requirements for the deal. I believe it was apparent that a vehicle could not be ordered and arrive prior to the expiration of the incentive.
The dealer who sold us the car said the Washington buyer wanted to get the car before the incentive expired. It was scheduled for Aug 31. I’m not really concerned about that deal.
Honda’s statement on availability seems to be mostly bologna.
2002
Well-Known Member
What is important is that the dealer is essentially saying we have been misinformed that the dealer incentive is only available for residents of states where it is offered. California is currently the only state where Honda is shipping new Clarities so it is big news if out of state buyers can get the incentive by purchasing a car in California. We have on the other hand heard of dealers on the east coast who verbally told a buyer they can get the incentive (back when there was an incentive on the east coast) but when it came down to signing the papers the buyer was informed that a mistake was made and they don't qualify since they aren't a resident, and instead offered them a couple thousand off or something.
It sounds like this is a reputable dealer so what I am guessing is that since the Washington buyer heard about the incentive (which is now $4,000 through October 31st) the dealer is simply giving them that amount of discount since they know they can make a sale at that price. Normally the highest dealer discount we hear about on top of the incentive is around $3,000 or less but it's conceivable that this dealer is willing to give them a $4,000 discount.
Or the dealer incentive applies to out of state purchases, It would be really nice to know which it is, because this can open up a lot of possibilities for people in other states to get the incentive. But I tend to think this is just a dealer giving someone from out of state a good deal, but even if that's the case it's still good to hear that is possible also. We haven't heard yet of people from other states essentially canvassing California via email looking for the best deal but I would think there are people doing that.
I could only add to the speculation on what deals are being made and how they are structured. We may never know what happens in the back room, however, the sales department at Mid City Motor World may be able to provide some of the answers you seek.
Again, Honda’s statements about sending cars to markets where there is demand seems to be out of touch with the reality in which the rest of us exist.
Again, Honda’s statements about sending cars to markets where there is demand seems to be out of touch with the reality in which the rest of us exist.
Georgia does, I believe, since technically the one-time title ad valorem tax on a new/used vehicle purchase (that replaced the annual "birthday" ad valorem tax) is not legally considered to be sales tax; I can't find any information on the Georgia DOR website that suggests that there's any credit for out-of-state sales tax paid on a new car. On a related note, don't buy a car soon before you plan to move to Georgia, since they nail new residents with the TAVT too (based on fair market value).
2002
Well-Known Member
Yes Georgia is one of the states that don't charge sales tax on vehicle purchases, which would be a problem if someone takes delivery in California rather than having the car shipped. Pretty long drive though, even from San Diego it's over 2,000 miles so I doubt anyone would do that just to avoid shipping. Fuel, hotel and miles on the car would negate any potential savings.
Georgia used to have sales tax on vehicles, then you also paid ad valorem tax that you mentioned every year based on the estimated worth of the car. The ad valorem tax declined every year but over the years it accumulated to an amount nearly equal to the original sales tax, so it was almost like being double taxed.
Georgia has now eliminated sales tax on new car purchases, and instead collects a one-time ad valorem tax which is similar to the original sales tax amount, but then you no longer pay annual ad valorem tax. You are correct the ad valorem tax is not waived if you purchase a car in another state, but so far California is the only state I am aware of that charges sales tax to non-residents, so buying a Clarity in Florida for example should not be a problem as far as I know (some pretty good deals on 2018 Clarities in Florida up until a month ago, not sure if there still are).
Georgia used to have sales tax on vehicles, then you also paid ad valorem tax that you mentioned every year based on the estimated worth of the car. The ad valorem tax declined every year but over the years it accumulated to an amount nearly equal to the original sales tax, so it was almost like being double taxed.
Georgia has now eliminated sales tax on new car purchases, and instead collects a one-time ad valorem tax which is similar to the original sales tax amount, but then you no longer pay annual ad valorem tax. You are correct the ad valorem tax is not waived if you purchase a car in another state, but so far California is the only state I am aware of that charges sales tax to non-residents, so buying a Clarity in Florida for example should not be a problem as far as I know (some pretty good deals on 2018 Clarities in Florida up until a month ago, not sure if there still are).
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2002
Well-Known Member
They now have pictures of it posted on the Germain website. Based on the VIN number which ends 003295 the car was manufactured in May 2019. Not sure where it has been for the past four months. Any cars higher than about VIN number 1000 can only be found in California (they are up to VIN numbers above 5,000 now in California) so presumably this car was initially delivered to a dealer in California maybe in June then finally in September it was shipped to Michigan to fulfill the order placed back in March, even though the original customer order had long since been canceled. In one of the photos the odometer is still 000003 miles so wherever it was it was apparently not test driven.
This is incorrect. $1500 is the normal rebate as long as you don't exceed $150k for single filers or $300k in joint filers.
If you're below the low income cap give, you get an additional $2k on top of the $1.5k, so a total of $3.5k The limit of that is 300% of the FPL.
So $36,420 for single household, and another $12,960 for each additional household member.
Funding comes and goes every year. When it's used up, you get put on the waitlist and they process it as soon as they receive funding. They've already been approved for additional funding for this year and they're just waiting to receive it now before they start processing all the rebates for non-low income applicants.
Impressive to see that they charged it, even before the photo shoot.
When my daughter was shopping, the first test drive was with the battery flat (not at Germain) and she requested a redo but only after they charged it.
You are correct. I should have read past the first page with the link to more information. The wording made it sound as though the rebate only applied to low income buyers. I chose not to read the details since we purchased in Oregon.
We briefly considered buying in California, out of desperation. In order to qualify for the So Cal Edison rebate of $1000 and the $1500 California rebate, one requirement is to maintain registration in California for 20 months. That requirement would have increased our insurance and registration costs by an amount almost equal to the combined rebates over the 20 month period.
Trust me. We called our insurance company and calculated the DMV fees. And we still would have been out over $3K in sales tax.
All of this leads me to believe that $300K for a California couple may actually be considered low income.
We briefly considered buying in California, out of desperation. In order to qualify for the So Cal Edison rebate of $1000 and the $1500 California rebate, one requirement is to maintain registration in California for 20 months. That requirement would have increased our insurance and registration costs by an amount almost equal to the combined rebates over the 20 month period.
Trust me. We called our insurance company and calculated the DMV fees. And we still would have been out over $3K in sales tax.
All of this leads me to believe that $300K for a California couple may actually be considered low income.
In LA or San Francisco maybe--certainly not in Eureka.
4sallypat
Active Member
Um this^^^ is true in the Bay Areas of Northern California.
In Southern Calif not so - about $150K or under is low income.
MPower
Well-Known Member
This author is a little late to the party. @insigjtmam has been running his own personal letter writing campaign of more than a year. https://arstechnica.com/cars/2019/09/dear-honda-this-adorable-electric-car-needs-to-come-to-the-us/
In one of my letters to American Honda I thought I might show my sincere EV desire by enclosing a photo of me (note my cool Insight shirt) holding my very expensive Swiss scale model of the Urban EV Concept car that Honda showed a year before unveiling the Honda e (even though the Honda e was actually designed first). Didn't work.
I'd written earlier letters to Honda, begging them to bring the Clarity PHEV to non-ZEV states (Michigan) and that did happen. So I wrote letters and held out hope for the Honda e for a long time, but when American Honda pulled the Clarity back to California I realized they've given up on plug-in cars.
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Sloanhoo
Member
Don’t you get a pass on CA state sales tax if you show you registered it and physically moved it to another state? That’s what Oregon buyers do when they buy in Washington.
A little birdie told me that at the just wrapped up Honda dealers conference, the 2020 Clarity PHEV will be CA and OR only (like the BEV has been all along). I take this with a little grain of salt, but it does sound plausible. Shipments on the 2020's very near the end of the year.
Not in my experience as an Oregon resident. I’ve purchased 2 cars in the past 3 years from CA dealers. Technically just one, the Clarity we had delivered to Oregon by the dealer which was rather a painless experience. There were some documents that needed to be notarized and proof of a fuel purchase in Oregon was required. It was for 9/10ths of a gallon.
The other car was a used vehicle. They, on paper, sold to a neighbor who had a dealer license. I was issued a one day permit to drive it to Oregon, he then sold it to me. They were not going to let that car off the lot any other way.
Washington is much easier. We bought a motorhome from a private party. This was a simple process of drive it home and get it registered. The other was a car from a dealer. They issued a temporary permit and did not collect sales tax.
2002
Well-Known Member
Good for Oregon if true, and also the surrounding states like Washington as they wouldn't have to deal with California sales tax complications.