Non-Tesla NACS port locations

[MojaveD]

I hear of manufacturers jumping on board with NACS in the coming year or two but I hear no discussion of relocating their charge ports to the left rear fender (or right front) to avoid occupying two spaces at a supercharger. Anyone heard anything credible?

For those with older EVs like me, do you foresee an extension cable coming to the aftermarket, to access SC?


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[GetOffYourGas]

V4 superchargers solve this with longer cables. Of course this begs the question of what to do about existing superchargers.

There is one thing I’ve wondered but never seen anyone talk about one way or the other. Are all of these manufacturers getting access to the FULL network? Or just the new ones? The original superchargers aren’t actually NACS. it’s more than the plug, it’s also the communication protocol. Older Teslas have to be refit to support NACS. Does that imply that non teslas won’t get access to the older non-NACS superchargers? Will they all be refit at the charger? If the latter maybe Tesla would simply upgrade the stations to use the V4 with the longer cables.

Just some musings. I don’t have any answers. I’d love to hear if others do, otherwise I’ll just wait and see.


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[aamyotte]

It would make sense that the port is on the same spot of all vehicles. After all these years they still haven't agreed on ICE vehicles, left side/right side or even behind the license plates or tail light.

 

[marshall]

V4 superchargers solve this with longer cables. Of course this begs the question of what to do about existing superchargers.

There is one thing I’ve wondered but never seen anyone talk about one way or the other. Are all of these manufacturers getting access to the FULL network? Or just the new ones? The original superchargers aren’t actually NACS. it’s more than the plug, it’s also the communication protocol. Older Teslas have to be refit to support NACS. Does that imply that non teslas won’t get access to the older non-NACS superchargers? Will they all be refit at the charger? If the latter maybe Tesla would simply upgrade the stations to use the V4 with the longer cables.

Just some musings. I don’t have any answers. I’d love to hear if others do, otherwise I’ll just wait and see.


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They will not get access to the full Tesla network. There are more Supercharger ports in the network then what is available to non-tesla owners.

Ford has said they will get access to 15,000 Superchargers, this is probably the number of charging ports.

One article states there are currently 22,000 charging ports. So almost 70% of the charging ports will be available to Ford owners, and probably the others.

This makes sense, since then are locations that can't handle the number of Teslas that need to charge.

As far as charge port location, for curbside charging, having the charge port on the passenger side or front of the vehicle makes the most sense.

 

[bwilson4web]

it’s more than the plug, it’s also the communication protocol.

Correct and that is a good reason for making sure there is a refund policy. Once you get the unit, test, test, test.

One potential problem is out of manufacture, older EVs, like my 2017 BMW i3-REx. No future software updates. But this is where the range extender engine and generator gives me an 'out.' The 2017 BMW i3-REx can sustain 70 mph, 24x7, in 88 mile segments between gas stations and carry a spare 2.5 gal can in the frunk for another ~88 mi.

Another problem is the BMW i3 fast DC charging is rate limited 44-48 kW with flat rate to ~80% when it ramps down. In contrast, my Tesla has a peak rate of 178 kW with a triangular decrease over the hour. Running on the gasoline range extender engine can be ~4x cheaper than fast DC charging where the charging fee is time, not kWh based. I have little economic reason for SuperCharger access for the BMW i3-REx.

Bob Wilson

 

[GetOffYourGas]

I have used the MagicDock to access Tesla superchargers with my Mini SE and Bolt. At those locations, Tesla charged by kWh and not by time. I’m grateful as both of those cars limit around 50kW. I assume they will keep per-kWh rates and not by time when they open more of the network.


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[bwilson4web]

The charge mechanism, by minute or by kWh, is often a function of State utility laws. I've experienced both and much prefer by kWh.

Bob Wilson

 

[GetOffYourGas]

I’m honestly torn. I prefer paying per kWh but time is a limited resource too. Paying per minute would encourage people to move when their charge rate starts to taper. It should - in theory at least - help reduce congestion at the stations.


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[Puppethead]

Paying per minute would encourage people to move when their charge rate starts to taper.

Pay by minute is unfair for EVs with lower charge speeds. My MINI Cooper SE is 50 kW max, so it would theoretically cost me 3x as much for the same charge as an EV that can charge at 150 kW. One can make the argument that charging by the minute helps with turnover (like clearing tables in a restaurant), but I doubt that's the case. More likely someone like me will just go somewhere else.

As for idling, the EA site I was at today, which charges by the kWh, warned of an idling fee after 10 minutes of no charging. That seemed reasonable to me.

 

[insightman]

I had the best parking situation the other day. The first 8 parking spaces in the parking structure have EVSEs and are unsurprisingly marked "EV-only." I had nearly a full charge from home, so I wasn't going hog an EV charging space just to get an easy-access parking space. Then I saw one of the spaces was missing its EVSE! I got a great parking space without blocking an EV driver who needed a charge. I wonder if the city would have ticketed a ICEr parked in that EVSE-less spot marked EV-only?

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Pay by minute is unfair for EVs with lower charge speeds. My MINI Cooper SE is 50 kW max, so it would theoretically cost me 3x as much for the same charge as an EV that can charge at 150 kW. One can make the argument that charging by the minute helps with turnover (like clearing tables in a restaurant), but I doubt that's the case. More likely someone like me will just go somewhere else.

As for idling, the EA site I was at today, which charges by the kWh, warned of an idling fee after 10 minutes of no charging. That seemed reasonable to me.

I totally get where you are coming from. I have a Mini SE and a Bolt EV. Both of which charge at around 50kW max. So time based charging would cost more for me than for others. In one sense, charging per kWh makes it “fair”.

But in another very real sense, that makes it unfair. Time is a limited resource too. Congestion at these stations is increasingly common and anything to encourage people not to linger should be considered. Even a faster charging EV slows down above 80% or so. So they should have a motivation to pack up and leave if they are into their taper.

To be clear I’m not advocating for a straight per-minute fee. I honestly think a combination of per-kWh and per-minute fees should be charged. There are plenty of ways to do this. For example, after say 45 minutes, a per-minute fee could be added as a congestion surcharge. Sure you can keep charging but it will cost you more. And an SE would almost never see that fee. A Bolt might once in a while.

I’m sure people here could come up with other schemes that encourage the same result. Where we are today, access to DC chargers (I.e. time connected) is a very limited resource, and growing slower than the base of users in most places.


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