Pushmi-Pullyu
Well-Known Member
Perhaps I should have said: The relative lack of EV fast chargers in those States.
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Perhaps I should have said: The relative lack of EV fast chargers in those States.
Pushmi-Pullyu
Well-Known Member
Yes, but even so, traffic is much heavier in densely settled areas than sparsely settled ones. Therefore, in densely settled areas, you'll find both EA stations and Tesla Supercharger stations to be greater in number and more closely spaced.
Esprit1st
Well-Known Member
Yes, which doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Because why would I use a fast charger in a densely populated area if I can charge at home?
Well, I guess there is exceptions but generally it doesn't make a lot of sense. Densely populated areas need a BIG bunch of level 2 chargers. Like at every grocery store or mall area. Basically in every bigger parking lot.
Pushmi-Pullyu
Well-Known Member
If 90-95% of EV charging is slow charging at home or at work (or at a destination charger), that still leaves 5-10% that is done at EV fast chargers. There will always be more EV fast chargers in densely populated areas than in sparsely populated ones, for the exact same reason there are more gas stations in densely populated areas.
That's just basic math; nothing incomprehensible or mysterious about it.
My opinion may be an outlier here, but I think there will be little if any need for L2 chargers at grocery stores and malls in the future. Those are only needed for PHEVs and for BEVs with inadequate driving ranges. As the standard car becomes a BEV with 200+ (or even 300+) miles of range, there won't be much need for slow charging while you shop.
The place for L2 chargers is where people park overnight, not where they park for an hour or less. Again, just my opinion.
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Pushmi-Pullyu
Well-Known Member
Right. I should have said "The place for L2 chargers is where people park for several hours at a time, either overnight or for a workday, not where they park for an hour or less."
It depends on the cost. If you get free or very, very, very low cost electrons, then why won't you use it? Case in point, is one of the local libraries offers free charging so I plug in for an hour or less while there.
Pushmi-Pullyu
Well-Known Member
You've missed my point completely. Of course there's no good reason for you not to use such amenities if they are offered. But why is the merchant or business owner offering such amenities? The fact that such things will attract customers is just a symptom of the fact that PHEVs and older BEVs don't have adequate EV range. As that situation mostly disappears over the next several years, my guess is those free or nearly free EV charging parking places will mostly disappear, too.
That timeline entirely depends on how many companies become dedicated to manufacturing longer range BEVs.
Unfortunately according to this article it may be longer than expected:
https://ww.electrek.co/2020/01/13/bmw-rd-chief-most-of-the-us-does-not-need-bevs/
Pushmi-Pullyu
Well-Known Member
Your link goes to an article entitled "BMW R&D Chief: ‘Most of the US does not need BEVs’"
I'm willing to bet that if someone did the research, they could find similar quotes from market leaders selling the old tech, in every single disruptive tech revolution in history. The auto exec is touting what his company wants to sell; that's what businessmen and company spokesmen do.
The term "Luddite" refers to those violently opposing the disruptive tech revolution of power looms, during 1811-1816. I think that if someone did the research, he could find quotes from those running mills using traditional hand manufacturing in that era who would say, more or less, "Our customers prefer textiles to be hand-made" or even "Most of Europe does not need machine-made textiles".
Esprit1st
Well-Known Member
I disagree, it will always be a perk and a reason to prefer one shop over another if there is free charging. People like to save money, they'll choose the gas station across the street because it's 1¢ cheaper. So why wouldn't you go to the grocery store that lets you charge your ev for free. Less charging at home so you'll save even more money.
We get ripped off everywhere from everybody as citizens. We get triple and quadruple taxed and we can't do anything about it. So technically we're forced to squeeze every penny out of everything. I'll take a free charge any time.
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ericy
Well-Known Member
And how much does it really help? A level 2 charger (7kW) would only deliver 3kW over a 30 minute period. That's roughly the amount of time I spend at Panera for lunch, for example. That 3kW doesn't amount to all that much - it only gets me roughly 12 miles. Is it worth the effort, or is there somewhere else closer that you might go for lunch instead?
If I were to go to the movies, you might spend 2-3 hours there. While not enough for a full charge, it can be a significant bump.
Home and work are really the two big ones. That's where you could conceivably get a full charge in the amount of time you are there.
Gsbrryprk8
Member
My Kona can get 250+ miles on a full charge. My typical daily driving distance is 5-20 miles, so I’ll take a 1-2 hr L2 charge at the grocery or library if it’s available since that’s a few days worth of fuel for me.
Furthermore, if it’s a choice between a store that has a charger (especially if free) and one that doesn’t, I’ll take the former.
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Furthermore, if it’s a choice between a store that has a charger (especially if free) and one that doesn’t, I’ll take the former.
Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
well sure, groery stores will do it. places like superstore here and others have a gas rebate to use in the store towards purchase.
a lower power charger, like 7kw or so would give you at least what you use to get there, if not more.
or maybe a key number with groceries for a certain amount of time or power volume on a faster charger.
then you'd collect everytime you returned after the first purchase.
or you could collect right away, but then you'd spend more time.
Esprit1st
Well-Known Member
If they were everywhere I wouldn't have to charge at home at all and that's exactly the point.