New owner with EV range concern

MrFixit said:
On the Climate screen, the A/C has 3 modes ("ON", "OFF", and neither). You have to explicitly turn it OFF with that button.
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Thanks, this is HUGE and has been bugging me for weeks. I discovered that "third" neither mode by chance, and note that the Clarity (at least, ours) will surreptitiously kick it into "neither" mode quite a bit, esp. after turning on the fan. So now I habitually:

1. pull up the climate screen
2. make sure "OFF" is selected, and if not, select it
3. adjust the fan setting as needed

IIUC, the "neither" mode is functioning as an "AUTO" mode, i.e., when both of the "ON/OFF" modes are unselected, the climate control will honor the temperature values as thermostat settings and heat/cool the car accordingly (which is basically what you just said @MrFixit, forgive me for mansplaining). I apologize if this is discussed extensively elsewhere, but it's otherwise my first bug noted, as the "AUTO" mode light on the driver's side should kick on when this happens. grrrr.....:mad:

Sometimes the car seems to remember the "OFF" setting between drives, sometimes not. My only beef with the issue is that if I neglect to catch it, the engine turns on and I end up burning a mile or two of gas. (We can tell that AC has kicked on right away by the somewhat stale scent, and then it's a little like that scene in LA Story where they're loading the gun on the freeway, except all the drama is about getting the AC off ;))



-Matt
 
MrFixit said:
There is an 'option' to do this. It is not the most straight-forward, and requires multiple steps.

On the Climate screen, the A/C has 3 modes ("ON", "OFF", and neither). You have to explicitly turn it OFF with that button. That alone is not good enough however... You need to also crank the temperatures all the way down until the display reads "LO". Otherwise the heat may come on. If you crank the settings to "LO" without explicitly turning the A/C to "OFF", then it will run the air conditioning full-tilt which is not what you want. But when you have the A/C set to OFF and the temperatures set to LO you will get fresh outside air. Also make sure you are not set to recirculate...

Maybe there is an easier way, but this is all I have found and I know it works.
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Interesting thanks, I'll have to try that out. Does it remember it or is it something you have to reset each time you drive like half the other settings :eek:
 
dnb said:
. Does it remember it
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Remembering things has always eluded me. Like you say, it is too much of a mixed bag further complicated by the two different driver settings.

I think it may remember this, but I am not certain because often we start out with ventillation, and then eventually need to turn the A/C on so the next time I forget whether I turned the A/C on or if it failed to remember. When you do turn tha A/C on, don't forget to set the temperature again otherwise you will be feeezing yourself when the A/C is running and set to "LO" !

All-in-all ventillation is provided, but it is kind of a pain.
 
Pre-cooling the car does not seem to work if the AC was off when it shut down. I use some free public chargers, and it is nice to use their energy for my comfort.
 
MrFixit said:
When you do turn tha A/C on, don't forget to set the temperature again otherwise you will be feeezing yourself when the A/C is running and set to "LO" !
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I always leave the temperature set to LO and use the fan speed to control the inside temperature.
 
18ClarityPLUG said:
Thanks guys. Yes I'm aware of the higher speeds and other things that can effect the actual range. I normally do use HV on the freeway. I was more concerned with what I'm charging to, not what I'm actually getting. It sounds like this is pretty normal though and that the 47 advertised EV range is just that, advertised and not a areal world number.
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It is a real world number if you use the car for local driving. Mine has 40K miles on it and still gets 50 EV miles if I drive locally. When I go on an out of town trip it drops to 40 and when I get home it estimates 43 because it averages your recent driving habits.
 
Annwn said:
It is as good of a lesson as any in just how much air you start moving as you start increasing speed and what sort of energy it takes to overcome that resistance, even in a fairly slippery car.
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And the comparison to mpg figures of gas cars is a good lesson in how the efficiency of an electric motor doesn't change much with speed, and a gas car engine's efficiency is still going up at the speeds we are talking (at least with modern overdrive gearing). The big drop we see in EV versus a gas car is not due just to the air resistance.
 
If I had a friend ask what to expect with their new Clarity, I'd say 30-40 miles of EV range average. I realize that folks in these forums see a lot more, but I never have, even when the car was brand new. Presently (with ideal weather), I get 40 miles of EV range. In the winter it will be 28 miles.

I am very glad I bought the car, but I've never seen the EV miles others see. So it depends on which Clarity, how the person drives, do they use the heater in the winter?, do they live on a hill, etc.

BTW- got the budget capacity reader tonight. My reading is 49.12.
 
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MrFixit said:
There is an 'option' to do this. It is not the most straight-forward, and requires multiple steps.

On the Climate screen, the A/C has 3 modes ("ON", "OFF", and neither). You have to explicitly turn it OFF with that button. That alone is not good enough however... You need to also crank the temperatures all the way down until the display reads "LO". Otherwise the heat may come on. If you crank the settings to "LO" without explicitly turning the A/C to "OFF", then it will run the air conditioning full-tilt which is not what you want. But when you have the A/C set to OFF and the temperatures set to LO you will get fresh outside air. Also make sure you are not set to recirculate...

Maybe there is an easier way, but this is all I have found and I know it works.
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Yes that is what I did when I lived up north. I only took the temp off low if my limbs started to freeze up.
 
Dan Albrich said:
If I had a friend ask what to expect with their new Clarity, I'd say 30-40 miles of EV range average. I realize that folks in these forums see a lot more, but I never have, even when the car was brand new. Presently (with ideal weather), I get 40 miles of EV range. In the winter it will be 28 miles.

I am very glad I bought the car, but I've never seen the EV miles others see. So it depends on which Clarity, how the person drives, do they use the heater in the winter?, do they live on a hill, etc.
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Dan:

You have repeatedy described how you have never obtained the range that others in the forum have demonstrated. You seem to be puzzled (and maybe a bit disapointed by this). Then, on the other hand, I believe this is not a puzzle at all, and you have identified the reason yourself. The fact that you live on a significant hill, and anywhere you go takes you down into a valley with a 1600 ft. drop. When you leave your house with a full charge, you are unable to benefit from the potential energy of the hill because there is nowhere for it to go. When you return home, it takes a significant amount of energy to climb the hill, and that reduces your EV mileage substantially. Numerically, it takes 2.4 kWh of energy just to raise your 4,000 lb car by 1600 ft. This equates to 2.4 kWh of energy which is roughly equivalent to 8 miles. Potential energy is just ''m*g*h"

You say that presently you get 40 miles of EV range. If not for the ~8 miles lost just to climb your hill, that would be 48 miles.

My suggestion to you: "If you had a freind ask what to expect with their new Clarity" - Do NOT tell them 30-40 miles just because that's what you see. Rather, tell them 38-48 miles because that's what nearly everybody else sees (because we don't have the same very unusual geometry that you do). Why convey a fringe condition when you have actually come up with a perfectly plausible explanation for your unusual performance?

Sure, give them some caveats like the heater, the speed that they drive, summer vs. winter, but please don't convey your low number as though it is 'normal', particularly when a simple potential energy calculation seems to explain the difference.
 
MrFixIt- So first off, thanks for all your help with the battery capacity read out. And yes, absolutely, my 1600 feet hill is definitely a major issue for my range. Although when on long trips where I am not home and driving EV on flat ground I do not see 8 miles of range gain. I can't explain that, but I don't.

I say always, under-promise and over-deliver. And yep, everyone sees things differently. If I knew someone had a need for 25 EV miles, I'd say yep Clarity can do that -- and do that year round. If you say 47 (or 47+), well that's a summer thing for those that get it.

And actually, I don't think Honda can know what each person's situation is, but I'd still advertise a lower value (and actually very much because they cannot know in advance what one will see).
 
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Dan Albrich said:
well that's a summer thing for those that get it.
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Well, glass half full or empty. My main point being that I feel this excellent forum has demonstrated that you are an anomaly (not in a bad way). You have demonstrated an unusual fringe condition. With my driving scenarios (and likely a majority of the others), I have no problem getting the '47+' for 3 seasons (3/4ths of the year).

The Clarity can, and does achieve the advertised range under a wide range of normal operating conditions. Just as I would not avocate a 56 mile range (which is definitely 'possible'), I would not advocate that the range is only 40 (because that too is a fringe case).

I think it is necessary for a manufacturer to advertise a single number (well founded with standardized test conditions, ie: EPA to keep them honest). This allows for a fair comparison between models. Beyond that, then the buyer has a responsibility to understand how other conditions can affect range. All vehicles of the same class (PHEV, BEV) will exhibit similar behaviors, so it is a fair fight. I will continue to feel that Honda did a very good job with this vehicle, and the stated (and validated) range number is well-founded, acheivable for most, and it is still (after 3+ years since introduction) better than any other vehicle in it's class. And I might add - at a much better price !
 
MrFixit said:
The fact that you live on a significant hill, and anywhere you go takes you down into a valley with a 1600 ft. drop. When you leave your house with a full charge, you are unable to benefit from the potential energy of the hill because there is nowhere for it to go. When you return home, it takes a significant amount of energy to climb the hill, and that reduces your EV mileage substantially.
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I can't speak to Dan's situation but there are two routes back to my house that involve some hill-climbing, one that includes a hill + freeway. We're talking a few 100 feet climb (I imagine) not anything like 1600 feet, but when I take the latter route home, I can always count on my EV GOM ending around 5 miles short of my actual distance traveled (which is the exception for us, it is normally within about a mile per short all-EV trip).

(FWIW we do a full nightly recharge and tend to get 49-50 on the GOM)

Side note: I know we're all (incomparable) apples and oranges, but I try really, really hard to go light on the accelerator (I'm sure we all do in our own way). The other night my daughter mentioned how much she loves driving the Clarity (vs. our 2007 CRV) and how "fast it is on the freeway." To my utter horror she'd discovered the pedal "click" and said something like, "If you really need to speed up when you get on the freeway, you can just press down hard."

I gave her a look that hopefully said, "Do that again and you can ride your bike from now on." :mad:

-Matt
 
MrFixit said:
Hey - this is what the car is designd to do... No harm whatsoever. Le her have some fun !
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First, she's 19 so...you can imagine what kind of scenarios run through my head with a very "mature teen-ager" on the freeway. :eek:

Second, I'll have to reassess what we bought the car for....I don't remember "fun" being on the list but maybe there's room for it somewhere! ;)

-Matt
 
Going uphill will consume 2-3 miles of EV range, depending on speed and grade, for every mile travelled. Going downhill with a full battery gains nothing. That’s the rub when starting and ending at the top of a hill.

Put the hill in the middle for different results.
 
A good experiment would be start the circuit at 85% full battery (or 100% - 2.4 kWh) and keeping the return up the hill at the end of the circuit. It would cool to know if the lost 8 miles show up.


Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
 
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