New Motorweek EV video shows why they're still not for me

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PHEV Newbie

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Hi All,

There's much discussion here about PHEV vs BEV. If you have two or more cars (at least one being an ICE or PHEV), then the BEV dedicated for around town driving is perfect for that purpose. As the new video below shows, unless you're willing to spend a lot of time looking for a charging station and then waiting around for a charge, even for a simple trip across state, a BEV for road trips is a long way from viable for most people. On the other hand, a good option is simply owning a single BEV for everyday driving and then renting a car for road trips. Then, there's really no need for long range BEVs and for most people, one with a hundred mile range is plenty. Why the obsession with long ranges when folks can simply rent ICE cars cheaply when they need them? I suspect that was the thinking of automakers (hence all the low range BEVs out there) and then they were blindsided by the poor demand for hundred mile BEVs.
 
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That is my one grip in New York. For all out Governor's talk, I am still waiting for charging stations at Thruway (Interstate 90) rest stops. Very few public charging stations around cities like Binghamton, Rochester, Syracuse and Utica (which are the ones I visit often). Then, when there are a few chargers, most are in prime parking locations which people with ICE cars think nothing of using. When I have complained to owners and government, I have gotten no action to keep charging stations clear for EV vehicles only.

I also maintain a 100 mile EV range PHEV is the best way to transition to full zero emission cars and small trucks with more range and better support infrastructure. CUV/SUV vehicles should be able to be designed to handle that battery range with enough space for 7 to 12 gallons of fuel.
 
I think part of the problem is the several days a year when I need to either drive to a town about 40-50 miles away or I unexpectedly have to run a few errands that total too many miles. It happens less than 1% of the time, but when it happens, it's really inconvenient. Even with the Clarity, I only exceed the range of the battery around 5 times a year, but for those 5 times, I'm really glad I have a PHEV.
 
I thoroughly enjoyed my 6 winter months of Chevy Bolt as an only car. And now, I am also very glad that experience is over.

Multiple 45 minute DCFC charging sessions (if you can find one), heavy clothes, and even lap blankets (use no heat when range is running low), are a thing of the past!
 
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With kids in the car long road trips can be challenging. Adding charge stops is simply out of the question. I'll be glad to make the change to a BEV when charge times are 15 minutes.
 
jdonalds said:
With kids in the car long road trips can be challenging. Adding charge stops is simply out of the question. I'll be glad to make the change to a BEV when charge times are 15 minutes.
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And when you can reasonably expect to be able to charge in even really small towns out in the middle of nowhere. But, with that addition, I agree.
 
PHEV Newbie said:
Hi All,

There's much discussion here about PHEV vs BEV. If you have two or more cars (at least one being an ICE or PHEV), then the BEV dedicated for around town driving is perfect for that purpose. As the new video below shows, unless you're willing to spend a lot of time looking for a charging station and then waiting around for a charge, even for a simple trip across state, a BEV for road trips is a long way from viable for most people. On the other hand, a good option is simply owning a single BEV for everyday driving and then renting a car for road trips. Then, there's really no need for long range BEVs and for most people, one with a hundred mile range is plenty. Why the obsession with long ranges when folks can simply rent ICE cars cheaply when they need them? I suspect that was the thinking of automakers (hence all the low range BEVs out there) and then they were blindsided by the poor demand for hundred mile BEVs.
Click to expand...

The problem with short range BEVs is the loss in battery capacity over time and when the electric heater is in operation.
 
With current battery technology, it doesn't make sense to build a pure long range BEV as a mainstream car. As an exotic or luxury car, for ride sharing, delivery vehicles etc. it is understandable. But for a regular commuter car, a PHEV is more viable from engineering standpoint. Those huge batteries are a big drag on environment and won't be used as much as needed to justify such cost and material.
 
marshall said:
The problem with short range BEVs is the loss in battery capacity over time and when the electric heater is in operation.
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Not sure about over time but cold weather saps EV range about in half as I found out with the Clarity when I was getting between 25 and 28 miles on the coldest days. That's why I think a 100 mile EV Range would be perfect or, at least, to 60 to cover that cold weather degradation.
 
I think the video sums things up well. The main thing it missed is how much cold weather kills range. That's a real problem for cold weather areas. That 225 mile EV range turns into 150 very quickly in the cold. I would never want to be stopping every 2 1/2 hours to charge.

We currently have 3 cars in our family. A gas SUV for longer trips or when we need 5 or more people in the car, the Clarity PHEV for trips with 4 people or less, and a 2014 Nissan Leaf for local driving. It gets used the most, but we never use it for round trips outside it's range. I don't want to deal with planning trips around the sparse charging network. Nobody wants to drive the SUV unless they have to.

Everyone is different, but for me, I won't go to all BEV until I can drive it for at least 4 hour stretches on the highway without recharging, and they get a 75% fillup down to 15 minutes.
 
Sandroad said:
Too bad there isn't a way to require an initial payment for the Kwh, just to get in the parking spot!
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Too expensive to build a solution to require payment before getting into the parking area/spot.

An easier approach would be to have the EV charging locations at non-prime parking spots, far away from the entrance, so that there is little incentive for non-ev cars to park there in the first place!
 
Lithium Ion isn't getting BEV's to an acceptable combination of range/weight/charge time/cost. Until something lighter and cheaper comes along I'll need an ICE. I'll also want charging stations as available as gas stations are today. Clarity is the sweet spot in electrification for now.
 
thecompdude said:
Too expensive to build a solution to require payment before getting into the parking area/spot.

An easier approach would be to have the EV charging locations at non-prime parking spots, far away from the entrance, so that there is little incentive for non-ev cars to park there in the first place!
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That would make the cost of the locations unacceptable, people want to park near the building, and the building is where the only power is 98% of the time.
 
When I was a kid in the sixties Popular Mechanics and Popular Science were full of articles touting a future with flywheel powered cars, ie storage of energy mechanically. Not sure what happened to that idea, maybe the cars turned over when they tried to go around corners while holding all that rotational energy.
 
David Towle said:
When I was a kid in the sixties Popular Mechanics and Popular Science were full of articles touting a future with flywheel powered cars, ie storage of energy mechanically. Not sure what happened to that idea, maybe the cars turned over when they tried to go around corners while holding all that rotational energy.
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Not to mention what mayhem a runaway flywheel could commit in an auto accident.
 
I've recently been thinking that this is also why battery swapping stations don't make sense. I think their proponents didn't take the vision far enough: why swap the battery when you can swap the whole car? :) Which just means, drive to the range limit of your BEV and rent a car for the rest of the trip. Maybe combined charge-and-rent businesses could crop up 60 miles outside major cities, which ensure your BEV will be fully charged when you return a day or more later to swap back.
 
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