New Clarity PHEV video
- Thread starter Johnhaydev
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Johnhaydev
Active Member
I agree with you. However, here is a quote from another website:’What is a self-charging hybrid? It’s a term that’s had a lot more airtime recently from many car manufacturers, including Toyota and Kia’
victor_2019
Active Member
Actually, in case you didn't know, when you put that stuff called gasoline into the car instead of plugging it in, it's burning that to charge the battery. It in fact is not breaking the laws of thermodynamics and generating its own energy. Cheers
victor_2019
Active Member
So what?
Where do you think the electricity comes from when you plug the car in an outlet?
In the USA most likely it comes from a coal or natural gas plant.
Which is still irrelevant to this topic.
Charging refers to the battery.
I said it's self charging not self fueling.
The car can turn the engine and charge the battery on its own, therefore it is self charging.
Furthermore, in a pure hybrid, there is no way to plug the car in an outlet to charge the battery, so how can this charging be done other than the car charges its own battery?
2002
Well-Known Member
I have never had an issue with the term and I don't understand why it is considered wrong or misleading. I think it mainly rankles people who think the entire country should be driving pure EV as of right now and there is no excuse to use gas anymore, and so they slam not only gasoline cars but also hybrids and even plug-in hybrids. Using less gas isn't good enough for them we should all stop using gas completely like they have.
I do agree that from an environmental viewpoint a self-charging hybrid is not a virtue compared to plugging in. And in most parts of the country it is not an economic virtue either. But as you said not everyone is ready or willing to deal with a plug-in car, so a hybrid is at least a step in the right direction. At the moment even hybrid sales are a small percentage of total car sales so if there is a marketing slogan that will help increase the number of hybrids I'm all for it.
KentuckyKen
Well-Known Member
Two thoughts:
1. Could someone explain to me how a hybrid with just a 1.2 mile EV range can be “fully electric” for 80% of your city driving, more than 50% at 40 mph, and about a third at 62 mph. Does that mean they’re counted the times when the engine is running in its best power band and to generate electricity for the electric motor. If so that’s a rather misleading.
2. That “self charging” descriptor is meaningless when applied to EV hybrids. As @victor_2019 said, they all are! That’s like saying mirrors are self reflecting, airborne birds are self flying, light is self illuminating, plants are self growing, the sun is self powered, etc. ad nauseam.
Just verbiage that informs you of absolutely nothing important or in trying to inform just muddies the water.
1. Could someone explain to me how a hybrid with just a 1.2 mile EV range can be “fully electric” for 80% of your city driving, more than 50% at 40 mph, and about a third at 62 mph. Does that mean they’re counted the times when the engine is running in its best power band and to generate electricity for the electric motor. If so that’s a rather misleading.
2. That “self charging” descriptor is meaningless when applied to EV hybrids. As @victor_2019 said, they all are! That’s like saying mirrors are self reflecting, airborne birds are self flying, light is self illuminating, plants are self growing, the sun is self powered, etc. ad nauseam.
Just verbiage that informs you of absolutely nothing important or in trying to inform just muddies the water.
2002
Well-Known Member
I suppose another viewpoint is that Prius is fully self-charging, whereas Clarity can only self-charge about half way, you have to plug in to fully charge the battery. Again not really a virtue from an environmental or economic viewpoint, but it is simpler and easier which is the point of the slogan. And also a fully self-charging hybrid is the only viable electric car for people who do not have a place where they can plug in.
victor_2019
Active Member
well, city driving is more or less "stop and go" traffic where the vehicle is in EV mode for acceleration and for braking, and may even be in EV mode at constant speed between stops.
the other day my clarity battery was fully depleted, 0 range left, but if I accelerated and slowed down very carefully, keeping the acceleration under the blue limit shown on the instrument cluster and maximizing regen braking, I managed to remain in EV mode most of the time in city driving. the engine would turn on from time to time as the battery really got too low, but the regen of the next braking plus the engine charging for 30 seconds was enough for me to spend another few minutes in EV mode.
a lot of energy can be recovered during braking so for stop and go traffic, the engine is only needed to make up for the losses in the system.
2002
Well-Known Member
You were in HV mode not EV mode, even though the HV indicator was not lit. I wish the HV indicator would light up at 0 miles as that would help clear up a lot of the confusion.
Even in HV mode you will notice the EV indicator often appears, both can be on the display at the same time. That's because the EV indicator is not indicating driving mode it is only indicating that the gas engine has turned off. Of course in EV mode the EV indicator will be on all the time, except when you accelerate hard and turn on ICE briefly.
Some hybrids have separate icons for EV mode and EV, which makes it less confusing than Clarity which only has an EV indicator, but not a separate indicator for EV Mode, you only know you are in EV mode when the HV indicator is off and you have more than 0 miles of EV range.
The easiest way I think to keep it all straight is to remember that HV mode is charge sustaining mode, EV mode is charge depleting mode. HV mode will at times shut off the engine and use battery only (EV indicator lights up) but that won't last long as it is still in charge sustaining mode.
What would a non-self-charging hybrid be? Something like this Saturday Night Live non-plug-in BEV?
victor_2019
Active Member
self-
/self/
combining form
prefix: self-
- of or directed toward oneself or itself.
"self-hatred"- by one's own efforts; by its own action.
"self-acting" - on, in, for, or relating to oneself or itself.
"self-adhesive"
- by one's own efforts; by its own action.
charge
transitive verb
to load or fill to capacity
to restore the active materials in (a storage battery) by the passage of a direct current through in the opposite direction to that of discharge
to give an electric charge to (charge a capacitor)
so a self-charging vehicle is a vehicle that fills the battery with electricity though it's own efforts, without requiring an external source of electricity.
would you agree that an electric device which has a built-in solar panel is self-charging vs a device which needs to be plugged in to charge, or will you argue that there's no difference in getting that electricity from a solar panel or the outlet, so all devices therefore are "self-charging" ?
Gasoline is an external source of energy. So is sunlight. The ability to charge the battery comes from both the generator and the onboard charger. Technically speaking, they are both methods of self-charging if you choose to take that definition. Either way, using gasoline is no more "self" charging than plugging it in. Just much less efficient
Self-charging is a misnomer, a marketing term to mislead. I own a Toyota and can still admit it!
KentuckyKen
Well-Known Member
By all these musing and permutations of definitions it seems to me that all PHEV and all hybrids are “self charging” (which I still think is a meaningless term) since technically, they all can get you from point A to point B without external electrical input by using some, all, or none of the onboard battery at various times, and for differing distances, efficiencies, and emissions as long as you keep them gassed up.
Only pure BEVs are not “self charging”.
And when we get robotic arms plugging in cars at public EVSEs, then we’ll have a whole new round of defining what “self charging” means. LOL
But I mean, really, do most people shop for an EV by asking, “Is it self charging or not”?
I think not.
The first thing they ask is how far it will it go before it strands me on the side of the road when they should be asking will it handle my daily commute of x # of miles and how do I take long trips in it if I need to.
Only pure BEVs are not “self charging”.
And when we get robotic arms plugging in cars at public EVSEs, then we’ll have a whole new round of defining what “self charging” means. LOL
But I mean, really, do most people shop for an EV by asking, “Is it self charging or not”?
I think not.
The first thing they ask is how far it will it go before it strands me on the side of the road when they should be asking will it handle my daily commute of x # of miles and how do I take long trips in it if I need to.