Negativity

  • Thread starter Thread starter jdonalds
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jdonalds said:
You're not alone. I think it looks fine as well. At least it doesn't have what I call a "big mouth" front end like the new Toyota Avalon.

I've stood looking at the back of the Clarity trying to see what people find is ugly about it but can't. So many ugly comments... but I think it looks great.
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I was watching a Mercedes CLS maybe 2010 model, which is the big 4 seater sedan, next to a Clarity on the highway from behind. The proportion of the two cars wasn't that much different. You couldn't tell there was anything different about the Clarity. It's still "magic" how they fit that electric range into the car.

Whenever I see a Clarity drive by it looks like a car from the 21st Century, other cars just appear modern or contemporary, but not futuristic.
 
Atul Thakkar said:
NO CAR company is providing distribution of their profit for sale of car and money they make on maintenance and repair. The later component is significant. So far no car company had figured out how to make money on ev and along with push from oil industry, the charge will be a slow process. Canada may lead this as compared to USA, since gas prices are killing. People have to step up to be in this game and it will happen at a pace slowerthan we think.
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My personal thought is that the EV cars should be sold as no haggle. This way the dealers will want to push them as they can still make money. The manufacturer is free to offer sales incentives to spur sales. CarMax has been successful selling used cars at no haggle pricing.
 
ab13 said:
When the car is designed in Japan you get a different result than what people in other countries are expecting. Consider that the Honda N-Box is like the top selling car in Japan, which looks like a micro box taxi. They have a Japanese anime style in the typical design.

European designed Hondas have a completely different style.
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I suppose that cuts both ways. American auto makers have been almost entirely unsuccessful at selling cars in Japan. Probably the biggest reason for that is that automotive styles which appeal to Americans don't appeal to the Japanese.
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I'm already squarely on record for liking the Clarity design, but I do understand the dislike of the tall rear stance and width of the back end because Honda compromised on design in order to use one platform for FCEV, BEV, and PHEV. Still, that did work to our advantage with a good size trunk but still having great EV mileage. Is see all of the BMW and Mercedes four door sedan models you can ask for in our office parking garage, and they are definitely sleeker looking in profile and from behind - surprisingly my Clarity is almost more Mustang with four doors-like than the high dollar sedans.

The beefier back end would be well justified if it it were a hatchback with fully folding seats - THAT would be a killer design. But so long as Honda is committed to hydrogen fuel cells, the Clarity design is going to be a compromise.

Best of all folks, everyone I talk to is highly impressed with the fit and finish, ride comfort, and shocked at my new weekday gas free driving routine. Even weekends, unless out of town trips, are gasoline free. It is still going to be long time before EV becomes the king of the road, 25% manufacturer self-interest, 25% driver resistance, and 50% range constraint.

AND I DO AGREE WITH THE GENERAL CONSENSUS - EV's should NOT look weird or futuristic - a Honda CR-V with 50 mile battery range and another 300 gasoline would sell like ice cream in July...
 
One of our favorite cars was a CR-V. I would really like a CR-V with a 50 mile battery range and 300 miles of HV.
 
jdonalds said:
One of our favorite cars was a CR-V. I would really like a CR-V with a 50 mile battery range and 300 miles of HV.
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I really think it would be THE small crossover killer. Unfortunately, they seem bound and determined to keep it only as a hybrid.
 
Inside EVs liked Alex on Autos' review of the Kia Niro Plug-In Hybrid crossover. As gas prices continue to rise, perhaps Honda will be monitoring the sales of this no-brainer vehicle (that is, making a plug-in hybrid crossover seems like a no-brainer to me, if not to Honda).

Honda actually does have designers who know how to make attractive EV cars (see below). When was the last time you saw a car without a speck of chrome? The day after Honda announces they'll be selling this Sports EV in the US, I'm buying a tent and camping out at my local Honda dealer.

Honda_Sports-EV_Concept.jpg
 
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I really love the IDEA of the Kia Niro, but now after driving five months in a 50 mile EV as big as the Clarity, I want that SAME 50 mile EV range in a crossover. I would camp out for a CR-V with 50 miles EV and 300 miles on gas in a heart beat.

Did you see Alex's first look at the Hyundai Kona BEV crossover with 250 miles range...maybe the future is getting here a little faster than I thought possible. Unfortunately, it is a CA only compliance vehicle (to expand to states with CA level emission standards) - crap.
 
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Johngalt6146 said:
It appears, that in April, the #2 PHEV seller in the US was Clarity. It is also gaining on Volt. Did I read the chart correctly?

I just got back from Amsterdam. At the airport almost all the cabs are Teslas (170 S's and X's). This was the first Tesla I had ridden in. I like my Clarity more.
Returning from my hotel to the airport I used Uber and got picked up in a Hyundi Ioniq BEV. Very nice!
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For April, Prius Prime is 1, Volt is 2, and Clarity is 3.
2018-04.webp
 
insightman said:
Inside EVs liked Alex on Autos' review of the Kia Niro Plug-In Hybrid crossover. As gas prices continue to rise, perhaps Honda will be monitoring the sales of this no-brainer vehicle (that is, making a plug-in hybrid crossover seems like a no-brainer to me, if not to Honda).

Honda actually does have designers who know how to make attractive EV cars (see below). When was the last time you saw a car without a speck of chrome? The day after Honda announces they'll be selling this Sports EV in the US, I'm buying a tent and camping out at my local Honda dealer.

Honda_Sports-EV_Concept.jpg
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They can design, it's a question of the production vehicle in the end.

I'm not sure how close the Urban ev will be like the concept.

Here is a design using "similar" arrangement of headlights as the Clarity, the only for PlayStation Gran Turismo car design.

https://www.topspeed.com/cars/honda/2017-honda-vision-gran-turismo-concept-ar178302.html
 
My biggest negative about the Clarity is the windshield washer flueid reservoir

It is the size of a dog’s bladder. During the heavy snow days in Dec, I had to fill it up once every 3 days. And each time I fill it, it will only take 1/3 of the fluid bought at a standard gas station.

My old car will take the entire bottle at once and only needs refilling once or twice during the entire season.
 
I too would love a CR-V with Clarity like range (50 EV/300 ICE). But that may be a pipe dream.
The Clarity only works because of a fanatical approach to improving aerodynamics and reducing weight. That’s the only way using current battery tech and engineering that you can squeeze the economy and range out of the Clarity and still keep it affordable. This is why we have to put up with wheel pants, no sun roof and “dog’s bladder” size wiper fluid reservoir, 7 gal gas tank, no towing, and no spare tire among other things.
Using current technology and engineering there is just no way to make this work in a heavier, bulkier CR-V and keep it as affordable and with anything near the same interior room along with similar range. Honda had to sacrifice a lot of features and make a lot of compromises to get the Clarity to work so well. I just don’t see how that can be done on the CR-V platform until the energy density and the price of batteries improves significantly.
But I do think the future of EVs will be a CR-V like crossover with a 300-400 mile, 10-15 min 80% charge battery AND enough EVSV infrastructure to support them all. Until then, nothing touches the Clarity for me.
 
Those compromises are not out of line with other modern sedans:

-Towing- you will have trouble finding a sedan from any brand that is rated for towing anymore. It’s not something 99% of sedan owners would ever consider so the mfrs have no reason to consider it.

-Spare tire- same. Almost all cars are now shipping with the “fix-a-flat” kits instead of a spare. It’s cheaper and lighter which also affects MPG. I imagine for Honda, the money saved more than makes up for the “free” roadside assistance they offer.

Just wanted to point out that these compromises are not specific to the Clarity, but are common anymore.

Now I will agree wit you on the washer fluid, but I think the 7 gal tank is perfect for the intended mission of this vehicle and gives it decent range. I also like the wheel pants.
 
jerry50902 said:
My biggest negative about the Clarity is the windshield washer flueid reservoir

It is the size of a dog’s bladder. During the heavy snow days in Dec, I had to fill it up once every 3 days. And each time I fill it, it will only take 1/3 of the fluid bought at a standard gas station.

My old car will take the entire bottle at once and only needs refilling once or twice during the entire season.
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it also doesn't put out enough water- I always get streaking when done
 
AlanSqB said:
Those compromises are not out of line with other modern sedans:

-Towing- you will have trouble finding a sedan from any brand that is rated for towing anymore. It’s not something 99% of sedan owners would ever consider so the mfrs have no reason to consider it.

-Spare tire- same. Almost all cars are now shipping with the “fix-a-flat” kits instead of a spare. It’s cheaper and lighter which also affects MPG. I imagine for Honda, the money saved more than makes up for the “free” roadside assistance they offer.

Just wanted to point out that these compromises are not specific to the Clarity, but are common anymore.

Now I will agree wit you on the washer fluid, but I think the 7 gal tank is perfect for the intended mission of this vehicle and gives it decent range. I also like the wheel pants.
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Alan, I wasn’t meaning that our Claritys have more/worse compromises than other comparable cars, just that what the Clarity has cannot be replicated in a CR-V platform and keep its features and price the same. Mostly due to its weight, aerodynamics, and current state of battery tech. The Clarity’s engineering hits the sweet spot of EV/HV range and price and that just can’t currently be duplicated in a CR-V platform.
 
KentuckyKen said:
Alan, I wasn’t meaning that our Claritys have more/worse compromises than other comparable cars, just that what the Clarity has cannot be replicated in a CR-V platform and keep its features and price the same. Mostly due to its weight, aerodynamics, and current state of battery tech. The Clarity’s engineering hits the sweet spot of EV/HV range and price and that just can’t currently be duplicated in a CR-V platform.
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I think 2-3 years ago everyone said the same thing about the chances of a mid-size sedan getting 50 EV miles...it will happen for the CR-V within the next couple of years (2021 model in late 2020?)
 
Dstrauss, I will pick up the gauntlet you just threw down. If two years from today, you can buy a CR-V with comparable interior room, features, price, and get 50 miles EV and 300 HV, I will fill up your Clarity gas tank (at today’s prices/big bet huh?)!!
Want to wager something in return?
 
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jdonalds said:
The comments on those videos tend to be 90% negative. It just seems to be an uphill battle with consumers and dealerships who don't understand the benefits.
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If the internet was around in the early 1900s, the comments posted would have been highly instructive to our current situation. No, the masses don't get it and cannot be bothered to expend the brain power needed to understand the issue. I have seen their eyes glaze over once the term "kilowatt hour" is used. Critical thinking and intellect is SO out of fashion. Emotion, memes, and bumper-sticker political theory is the limit of what passes for "intelligent" discourse these days.
 
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