LG Chem -LG-E63 cell discussion

This data is amazingly interesting. Lots of work too.
Still, it seems to me crazy that owners need to dig this deep into the design.
But thanks.
 
KiwiME said:
Yes, you're right because that's what the campaign 196 update does every 1/2 or 1 hour for several hours after charging, while drawing needed power off the 12V battery. The problem is that OBD data is likely unavailable.

View attachment 10781
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If the car computers are active and doing things, they should respond to OBD2 requests.
 
electriceddy said:
I notice the link to the Queenbattery PDF no longer works (as provided in the leading post in this thread ... maybe lucky to have stumbled on to it before sh@# hit the fan?o_O). However if one is fortunate enough to have acquired it (or has another source for the file), the specs do mention in the 4.23 OCV table electrical specification of a test temperature of 25 +/- 2 degrees C. Also mentioned are resting times between the charge/discharge cycles as well as "OCV at defined SOC is the average of OCV at the same SOC measured by charge and discharge direction".
So far your cell voltage chart seems pretty accurate considering the limited test performed;)
Thanks for the graph and look forward to your further charging results
Click to expand...

Just clarifying it says 4.166V for 100%.

upload_2021-2-22_12-19-29.webp


Are you referring to this?

upload_2021-2-22_12-23-26.webp


If so, that's a reference to the section 4.2.3 which is the original image posted. I saw 4.23 and assumed you meant 4.23V.
 
eurokeitai said:
The PDF is still downloadable for me. Interestingly it has cycle life and storage life graphs in the end! Even with worst conditions, the cell appears to last at least ~800 cycles until it has degraded to 80%, which at 400km range translates to 320000km. The storage life graphs are less assuring

View attachment 10782
Roughly 1-5% degrading per year, depending of SoC. Unfortunately the colors of graphs have been lost, so it's not clear which SoC was the "1%" degrading line, and which one the "5%" one.
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The higher the SoC the faster the loss. So storing your battery at 100% for a year will lose about 5%, sounds about right. That's why they say to store at ~40% if you're not going to use it.
 
Lars said:
Now this from GM - The Bolt and the Kona EVs uses different cell separators.
So where is this info takes us? Both cars have HV battery related fires. So maybe the cell separator is not the source of the problem after all? Any guesses?

https://motorillustrated.com/genera...portantly-different-from-hyundai-konas/70466/
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Yeah I had kinda wondered the same thing.

I suspect that it's something like dendrites. A poor separator can increase the odds of a dendrite breaching the separator, and the severity of it.

So one problem is exacerbating the other.
 
News about the Ioniq 5 and the still unanswered question to Hyundai about the Kona battery issue/solution - not to mention my one-time use bolts.
 
Telek said:
Yeah I had kinda wondered the same thing.

I suspect that it's something like dendrites. A poor separator can increase the odds of a dendrite breaching the separator, and the severity of it.

So one problem is exacerbating the other.
Click to expand...

..........................
Components in the LG electrolyte probably support the growth of dendrites which pierce the separator, regardless of which separator is used (in the LG batteries for the Kona or Bolt). Perhaps the SK Innovation batteries use different electrolyte components (e.g. in the Kia Niro EV).
 
JohnEEngineer said:
..........................
Components in the LG electrolyte probably support the growth of dendrites which pierce the separator, regardless of which separator is used (in the LG batteries for the Kona or Bolt). Perhaps the SK Innovation batteries use different electrolyte components (e.g. in the Kia Niro EV).
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Dendrite growth is a known, common problem with Li-Ion batteries. They are the "Achilles Tendon' of this design/chemistry. This problem is not unique to LG Chem batteries. Some electrolytes likely perform better than others, but no one yet published a list of winners and loosers. This is still grey science. The problem is that there are too many variables, like driving style, charging habits, climate etc....
 
DasMeister said:
so if date is after March 2020 I shouldn’t be in recall theoretically?
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Here is the image captured from the battery of my 2021 Kona.
HV Batery label-old.webp

My car was not on the battery recall list, regardless it is sitting in the dealer's lot (with a new battery) since October 23.
 
Lars said:
Here is the image captured from the battery of my 2021 Kona.
View attachment 10855
My car was not on the battery recall list, regardless it is sitting in the dealer's lot (with a new battery) since October 23.
Click to expand...
..........................
Thanks. Is that photo the original battery label in your 2021 Kona, or a photo of the "new" battery label? You may have explained this in a different thread, but would you remind us why your 2021 Kona is sitting in the dealer's lot? If a new battery was installed after you bought your 2021 Kona, why was the original 2021 battery replaced?
 
JohnEEngineer said:
..........................
Components in the LG electrolyte probably support the growth of dendrites which pierce the separator, regardless of which separator is used (in the LG batteries for the Kona or Bolt). Perhaps the SK Innovation batteries use different electrolyte components (e.g. in the Kia Niro EV).
Click to expand...

Finally here is the answer from Hyundai. They will replace all Kona HV batteries in the US and in Canada.

https://www.greencarreports.com/new...ectric-battery-packs-most-expensive-ev-recall

So it looks that I will get a second new battery? How about a new set of one time use bolts? :(:(:(
It like waiting for my Covid 19 shots.
 
JohnEEngineer said:
..........................
Thanks. Is that photo the original battery label in your 2021 Kona, or a photo of the "new" battery label? You may have explained this in a different thread, but would you remind us why your 2021 Kona is sitting in the dealer's lot? If a new battery was installed after you bought your 2021 Kona, why was the original 2021 battery replaced?
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The photo is from the 'old' (original) battery. I was promised I will get one from the new battery - already installed - when they get the darn bolts to secure it properly to the car. Still waiting for four (4) South Korean 'one time use' bolts. According to Hyundai car is unsafe to drive with the original bolts reused.

I don't want to bore you with the details. It is all documented above somewhere on this thread.
 
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Lars said:
Now this from GM - The Bolt and the Kona EVs uses different cell separators.
So where is this info takes us? Both cars have HV battery related fires. So maybe the cell separator is not the source of the problem after all? Any guesses?

https://motorillustrated.com/genera...portantly-different-from-hyundai-konas/70466/
Click to expand...

You can design the best cell separator in the world and poor BMS/charger algorithms can still burst the pack into fire in short order.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Recoil45 said:
You can design the best cell separator in the world and poor BMS/charger algorithms can still burst the pack into fire in short order.
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Yes, and I do not believe that either GM nor Hyundai had a bad BMS. It's just LG trying not to be financially on the hook.
 
Recoil45 said:
You can design the best cell separator in the world and poor BMS/charger algorithms can still burst the pack into fire in short order.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
No doubt about that.. Would actually be interesting if the details of what LG is talking about would be released.. It's not like the Kona is one of the faster charging cars.. The charging curve seems very conservative to me.. Let's not forget that some Teslas charge more than 3 times as fast..
 
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