Is running EV charging stations a legitimate business?

[bwilson4web]

if the government will just step aside.

Government has a role to play with these problems:

And:

The first is Chinese pollution so bad that it was hazardous to breath. The second was paying for the oil to run ICE vehicles. These are variations of "The Problem of The Commons."

The problem of the commons is an economic and environmental issue that occurs when individuals act in their own self-interest and deplete a shared resource. This can lead to overconsumption, underinvestment, and the total depletion of the resource. ​

Today, the Chinese have all but stopped buying ICE vehicles. That market has evaporated which had been a profitable market for US and European car makers. The Chinese are world leaders in making batteries and battery chemicals which they make a profitably sell to the US and Europe. But owning a Tesla and BMW i3-REx, I have some sympathy:

• Buying and owning an ICE is like chastity - its own reward and punishment.

Bob Wilson

 

[stephen chen]

1. Tesla EV customer: Tesla have it's own EV customers to charge at its Supercharge Stations. and the tesla ev sales volume account for more than 50% of the total EV sales volume in North America.
2. Non-tesla EV Customer: Tesla's approach to opening its Supercharger network to other automakers is not only a move to promote sustainable transportation but also a smart business strategy. By allowing other EVs to use its chargers, Tesla stands to make money from its competitors' customers by collecting charging fees . There's an estimate that Tesla could make over $1 billion a year in revenue just from non-Tesla EVs using the Supercharger network in North America by the end of the decade.
3. Tesla's Supercharger Network: Tesla has indeed built a robust Supercharger network that provides a seamless experience for its drivers. They've been strategic in placing these stations along popular routes and in areas where drivers are likely to need a charge, similar to how gas stations are placed. With 50,000+ Superchargers, Tesla owns and operates the largest global, fast charging network in the world.
No need to mention Tesla's Market Advantage, Customer Satisfaction and other factors which facilitate tesla to gain profit from its supercharge department.
Even in China market, the EV Charging Operator's charger installation volume is even much higher, The annual cumulative increase in public ev charging stations in June 2024 was 400,000, achieving a 13% growth rate compared to the same period last year.
The success of EV Charging Operation depends on many facotors, but once it goes to positive cycle, it would grow very fast. with the increase of EV sales in North America, definitely the charging Operation business would also grow respectively. Let's see what the market would lead to the major players in the market.

 

[C02less]

Here's one example of the business viability for charging. In western Canada Coop gas bars and grocery stores have fast chargers. My insider at Coop tells me that it's a break even business. Coop is currently charging $CAD 0.42 / kwh, which is substantially less than Electrify Canada or Electrify America. Coop also has had the expense of first installing a crappy BTC network, then tearing it out in frustration and installing a more reliable Flo network. Plus Coop is expanding their network. And they monitor plugshare to listen to and provide timely feedback for their customers.

So, $CAD 0.42 / kwh is the needed price to break even while doing a good job. Other charging networks do a worse job and charge more. So I would say that most charging networks should be a profitable business by this benchmark. And Kudos to Coop!

 

[Keith Smith]

Thank you for demonstrating -- I presume unintentionally -- how deeply unserious these "government is always bad" arguments are. To address just a few key bits of silliness:

1. Your vision of cheap home EV charging will work for some, but not for lots of homeowners, depending on how the house and wiring are laid out. It would not have been possible in either of the two homes in which I've had my EV. The average American spends about $1200 to buy and install a home charger.

2. No, not all EV buyers are buying "pricey" cars. Some buy used just for that reason. And less expensive EVs are on the way from several companies. That's absolutely necessary for the market to keep growing, and to those folks, several hundred bucks matters. Sorry if people like that aren't in your social circles, but trust me, they exist.

3. The difficulties you cite for installing EV charging in apartment complexes are precisely why government help is needed. It's too much hassle and expense for most landlords to be willing do on their own. Over a third of Americans rent, and a few million of those homeowners live in multi-unit complexes or mobile home parks. Since public charging will for the foreseeable future be much more inconvenient and a time suck than home charging, it will be a deal killer for many. Let's not write off about 40% of drivers.

4. The idea that making EV charging easy, convenient and inexpensive will somehow create blowback is literally the wackiest idea I've heard since the last time Elon Musk tweeted.

RE: 1 You can do it for much less if you scale down the circuit. $1200 is going to be worst case, and running a line in an older home does not mean you have to run an 80A circuit. 240V/30A charging is fine for 90+% of EV owners. But again, if you can afford the car I'm not sure where $1200 is going to be a problem.

RE: 2. A relatively new EV is going to set you back $15-20K. If you are too stupid to budget another $1000 for the charger maybe this isn't the right move for you. Again, If you are near a dryer plug or a hot water heater, for $200 you can get a box to share 240v/30A. Add in $300 for a 24A level 2, maybe $300 if you need an electrician to run a couple of jumpers.

I'm not sure what 'Social Circles' you think I run in. Most of the people I associate with and who live near me work hard for a living. Or are retired on fixed incomes. I'm 100% solar, I've mentioned to a few neighbors who've considered EV if they get one they can charge free from my pedestal, and I've offered to help them get an L2 charger installed in their garage/carport. You?

RE: 3 Retrofitting into apartment complexes and the like is occurring. Often these types of improvements are dovetailed into other capital projects, for example: When driveways and roads need to be torn up, or say covered parking needs to be refurbished. Any time government gives money away to purchase a product or service, the cost of that product or service goes up in direct proportion to the amount of the government largess. This is trivially demonstrated, from myriad examples, you can start with tertiary education.

RE:4 I think you misunderstand the point. We are already seeing the blow-back against electric vehicles, due to government creating rules and laws that will basically ban non-electric vehicles. This is stupid, and arrogant. Sell the technology on it's own merit, and you don't get the blowback. As far as making charging easy and convenient, nobody is stopping you from starting up a charging company, get like minded people or invest in companies making it happen with YOUR money.

 

[Bruce M.]

RE: 1 You can do it for much less if you scale down the circuit. $1200 is going to be worst case, and running a line in an older home does not mean you have to run an 80A circuit. 240V/30A charging is fine for 90+% of EV owners. But again, if you can afford the car I'm not sure where $1200 is going to be a problem.

RE: 2. A relatively new EV is going to set you back $15-20K. If you are too stupid to budget another $1000 for the charger maybe this isn't the right move for you. Again, If you are near a dryer plug or a hot water heater, for $200 you can get a box to share 240v/30A. Add in $300 for a 24A level 2, maybe $300 if you need an electrician to run a couple of jumpers.

I'm not sure what 'Social Circles' you think I run in. Most of the people I associate with and who live near me work hard for a living. Or are retired on fixed incomes. I'm 100% solar, I've mentioned to a few neighbors who've considered EV if they get one they can charge free from my pedestal, and I've offered to help them get an L2 charger installed in their garage/carport. You?

RE: 3 Retrofitting into apartment complexes and the like is occurring. Often these types of improvements are dovetailed into other capital projects, for example: When driveways and roads need to be torn up, or say covered parking needs to be refurbished. Any time government gives money away to purchase a product or service, the cost of that product or service goes up in direct proportion to the amount of the government largess. This is trivially demonstrated, from myriad examples, you can start with tertiary education.

RE:4 I think you misunderstand the point. We are already seeing the blow-back against electric vehicles, due to government creating rules and laws that will basically ban non-electric vehicles. This is stupid, and arrogant. Sell the technology on it's own merit, and you don't get the blowback. As far as making charging easy and convenient, nobody is stopping you from starting up a charging company, get like minded people or invest in companies making it happen with YOUR money.

This is genuinely hilarious, and your cluelessness makes it even funnier. Goodbye!

 

[marshall]

I think you misunderstand the point. We are already seeing the blow-back against electric vehicles, due to government creating rules and laws that will basically ban non-electric vehicles. This is stupid, and arrogant. Sell the technology on it's own merit, and you don't get the blowback. As far as making charging easy and convenient, nobody is stopping you from starting up a charging company, get like minded people or invest in companies making it happen with YOUR money

If it wasn't for climate change, you could just let the technology speak for itself.