Is it like buying a computer?

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Calliope

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I've been thinking that choosing an EV is more like buying a computer than a typical car purchase, because one has to think about the future technological changes that might make your EV outdated in the future. I'm not thinking about firmware updates, but things like the max charging speed, battery size, or efficiency.

For instance, I'm looking to buy a new BEV in 2021 with a longer range; I am able to spend enough for a high-end-ish car (not as high end as the Taycan), but I don't necessarily need fancy options - so I'm looking at things from the Niro to the Mustang and e-tron, and everything in between. Leaving aside the batteries-exploding-into-flames thing, the Korean cars have got nice range and great efficiency, but their on-board charger is just 7.2 kW, and that will be limiting to recharge time. Maybe not now, but in a year or two will I be feeling left behind driving old tech and needing to upgrade my car to be able to meet reasonable expectations? In an ICE car, those changes are smaller and slower, and I don't think of driving a 5 year old car as being so "behind the times".

So I'm thinking I have to sort of be thinking ahead to what I will be using and enjoying in 3 or 5 years, even if I don't think I need it now. And that's like planning to buy a computer, looking at getting more space and speed than I think I need now, knowing that future use will pretty much require it.

Thoughts?
 
Yes, similar to a computer, don't expect to buy any EV in the next few years, and have it not go obsolete 3 years after. But like computers, can't keep putting it off just because you want the latest, best technology.

OR just buy something now that will adequately meet your needs for the foreseeable future, and stop thinking you always need the latest, greatest of everything. I think that is a modern disease of the current consumables culture (buy, throw out, buy again, and repeat).

Thankfully, I have kids, and grandkids that will soon be driving. So that is how I get rid of my old stuff..., haha. That's how I got my first car...
 
That just shows you how the auto industry was not doing anything for the past 50 years. Sure, a couple parking sensors or adaptive cruise control were invented but that's about it. But I digress.

I personally don't worry about it. A 7kW onboard charger charges the car from almost empty to almost full in 10 hours. Do I, or will I need more than that? I highly doubt it. Do I like the wider screen in the 2020 Kona better than mine? Yes, but I've been driving my car for a year longer than these 2020 guys, so my win! Heck, I was driving a 2005 Toyota before the Kona. It had normal cruise control and that was it!

So, I'd say: buy what you want and like, don't worry too much about how green the grass is on the other side of the fence. Insider tip: it always looks greener than yours, but it's it really? [emoji6]
 
As far as charging goes I would look at how often you take long trips (over 250 miles ) and what your driving style on those trips are. Do you drive non stop in an ice car with just fuel stops every 400 miles. If so then you need a high range quick charging EV. But if you like most people and stop every couple of hours to stretch you legs and use the facilities then it may not be that important. I have a Kona and yet I have driven over 540 mile in one day with just three stops with no issues. I have a kona with a limited 77 kw DC charge. It works fine. For 2hr stops: You start with a full 258 (epa) miles charge and drive 130 miles use the facilities and charge for 15 minutes. That add 60-70 miles. New range available is 163 miles drive for 130 miles stop stretch legs charge for 40 min, have lunch, use facilities. New range 208 miles(80%). Drive for 2 hours charge for 15-20 minutes. New range 170 miles. Drive for 2 hours. You'er now 520 miles and 9-1/2 hour down the road. Want to keep going? Dinner and charge and your good to go. Drive 120 mile to destination or 20 minute charge. Then charge over night and repeat. Its relaxing and about an hour longer than an ICE fuel only run. No you can't bomb down the highway at 80 miles hour, but if that what you want I don't think those EV are available yet. (ie Lucid Air or Tesla Plaid).

The 7.2kw on board Level 2 charger will charge the car to 100% over night so your always good in the morning
 
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Yes you are correct. Buying an EV today is buying completely obsolete technology. In a few years double the range at a lower cost would be expected. Leases or flipping every 3-4 years should be the method. Just the opposite of combustion cars.


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I use requirements:
  1. Must be able to travel to and from Coffeyville, KS, 750 mi, in one day.
  2. Must have: (1) lane keeping; (2) dynamic cruise control, and; (3) automatic lane changing.
  3. Must have the best kWh/mi efficiency.
  4. Must have access to a well maintained, low cost, fast DC charging network.
  5. Must have seats for two adults and three dogs.
  6. Must have the ability to recline seats to take a nap.
  7. Must have maximum safety: traction control, crush space front and rear, low fire hazard.
Bob Wilson
 
Obsolete in a few years - na. I've got a 7 year old Nissan Leaf and it does exactly what it did when new. An excellent city car, that costs next to nothing to run.

And this is probably one of the worst EVs made. Buy an EV with active battery cooling and it'll keep doing what you need year after year.

The advent of autonomous driving is the bigger deal. Not improvements in electric drive trains.
 
Recoil45 said:
Yes you are correct. Buying an EV today is buying completely obsolete technology. In a few years double the range at a lower cost would be expected. Leases or flipping every 3-4 years should be the method. Just the opposite of combustion cars.
Click to expand...

Yes, agreed. Normally I would never consider a lease. But as long as you don't put on huge numbers of miles, leasing is probably more sensible - you turn the car in after 3 years, and get a tech refresh.
 
Oh, BTW. The computers I build (always build myself) are also midrange priced. And they last for a long time, and I game with them.

Big retail wants you to buy the newest stuff all the time, but you really don't have to. Just be sensible.

And yes, you night not have the latest FSD driving (just marketing, it'll not be here for several more years) or I can't play the newest game on ultimate graphics settings.

But I can still enjoy it and I'm not broke.
 
Fastnf said:
As far as charging goes I would look at how often you take long trips (over 250 miles ) and what your driving style on those trips are. Do you drive non stop in an ice car with just fuel stops every 400 miles. If so then you need a high range quick charging EV. But if you like most people and stop every couple of hours to stretch you legs and use the facilities then it may not be that important. I have a Kona and yet I have driven over 540 mile in one day with just three stops with no issues. I have a kona with a limited 77 kw DC charge. It works fine. For 2hr stops: You start with a full 258 (epa) miles charge and drive 130 miles use the facilities and charge for 15 minutes. That add 60-70 miles. New range available is 163 miles drive for 130 miles stop stretch legs charge for 40 min, have lunch, use facilities. New range 208 miles(80%). Drive for 2 hours charge for 15-20 minutes. New range 170 miles. Drive for 2 hours. You'er now 520 miles and 9-1/2 hour down the road. Want to keep going? Dinner and charge and your good to go. Drive 120 mile to destination or 20 minute charge. Then charge over night and repeat. Its relaxing and about an hour longer than an ICE fuel only run. No you can't bomb down the highway at 80 miles hour, but if that what you want I don't think those EV are available yet. (ie Lucid Air or Tesla Plaid).

The 7.2kw on board Level 2 charger will charge the car to 100% over night so your always good in the morning
Click to expand...
Agreed , if travelling a lot (to cottage country or just plain longer road trips) try to get the vehicle with the highest efficiency and best charging curve to help lower costs at the sometimes pricey DC chargers. The new Level 2 (AC charging) minimum spec seems to be ~11Kw but may not be necessary depending on individual requirements. Even if your existing EVSE only delivers 7 kW, it will be easier on the overrated 11 kW OBC and will run cooler giving a longer life cycle.
Also important is to have a larger top end buffer within the pack to avoid cell voltages close to maximum voltage specifications.
 
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Esprit1st said:
Oh, BTW. The computers I build (always build myself) are also midrange priced. And they last for a long time, and I game with them.

Big retail wants you to buy the newest stuff all the time, but you really don't have to. Just be sensible.
Click to expand...

I built my own as well - sometimes buying older Dell boxes from eBay. The difference is that I don't intend to sell them after a few years - I would keep running them for ages and ages, and it is pretty easy to source parts to keep them working. Cars are different - they depreciate - a lot. Unless you intend to hdrive the thing into the ground, you will eventually want to resell the thing to someone else.

With an EV, the main thing is the battery tech. We know they are working on all sorts of things - reducing cost, new chemistries, improving charging, etc, etc. Right now, batteries are still expensive. If you had to replace a battery pack on an EV that was out of warranty, odds are that you would just have to total the car. Maybe in the future, indie repair shops will be able to refurb these things, but right now that's not the case.

It is impossible to predict what will come to pass from where we sit now.
 
If you are looking at long distance travel, 800+V charging/batteries should be on your radar. That one design factor will significantly reduce DCFC time by 50% or more. L2 charging is basically used for overnight. 7.2 kW should more than cover daily driving, but 11.5 (48A) is nice to look for.
 
Definitely a personal preference. However I am totally fine with what the Kona can do right now. Every ~2.5 hours a stop for about 30-40 minutes is just fine with me. It's just the right time to use the bathroom, have a snack or drink and by the time I'm done with that the car is ready to go as well.
 
Thank you all for your thoughts - it's helped me consider some new things, or look at things in different ways. I know that winter, and our lockdown procedures here (no stops in restaurants or lingering in stores), have made a difference to how I feel about things, but both those things are temporary. I will hopefully be buying something within 3 or 4 months, so I've got a little more time to consider.
 
With EVs or computers, the question to me is, will it still work for me in 3, 6 or 10 years? I have a 9 year old computer that suits my needs just fine, and I expect to keep my 2020 Kona EV for as long. Its charging, range, etc. work for me just fine and I don't see that changing.
 
Same here. My desktop computer which I am using for gaming is pretty up to date. My laptop is probably 14 years old and still good enough for what I need it for.

It depends on what you need things for. I don't think I will need full self driving any time soon. Or a soaker playing jingle bells outside. I'm fine with what my Kona can do, and most likely will be for the next 10-15 years.
 
No. Buying an electric car is nothing like buying a computer. It is like buying a car because it is a car. ICE cars also went through massive improvements too over the last century and they are still improving. It is silly to suggest otherwise and it is silly to make absurd connections. There will get to a point where the marginal improvements of EVs slows and that point will settle around what is ultimately the best use per form factor and target market, which is just like what's happening with ICE cars.
 
Technology improves. Every car I've owned has had improvements and features the prior ones didn't have. Such is life. But if you buy a car that suits your needs today, it probably will in five years, even if new competitors have bells and whistles that it doesn't.
 
Bruce M. said:
Technology improves. Every car I've owned has had improvements and features the prior ones didn't have. Such is life. But if you buy a car that suits your needs today, it probably will in five years, even if new competitors have bells and whistles that it doesn't.
Click to expand...
Personal experience:
  • 2014 BMW i3-REx - backup for the Tesla, dynamic cruise control makes traffic easy. It a great pocket rocket around town. No blind spot monitoring but you sit high with great visibility. Max acceleration, the car has serious scoot so I get to choose my lane.
  • 2019 Tesla Std Rng Plus Model 3 - down because a worn front tire picked up two nails. The replacements are in shipping and should arrive early next week. I look forward to lower rolling drag and AutoPilot driving. Then I'll take the BMW to the dealer because the driver seat warmer is not work.
Bob Wilson
 
Seeing lots of good points raised here and I've been wrestling with some of these issues myself. Being a relatively young technology the changes in capabilities of EVs are growing by leaps and bounds every year so yes if one buys now the purchase will be obsolete like the early home computers. This makes for a pretty substantial depreciation whack if and when you want to upgrade. In my situation I use my 2018 Leaf as a small business service vehicle and can claim depreciation against my income for tax purposes which helps greatly.

Countering this is the point that if it meets your needs now it probably will for some time into the future. My only concern if one wants to "buy and hold" is that the vehicle remains reliable and economically repairable as it ages. I can still get anything I need to keep my 21 year old Saturn on the road. As much as I love taking a standard tranny through the gears it feels like going from a bullet train to a steam locomotive. And hand cranked windows and manual door locks. What a hardship!

I came very close to going for a new Kia Niro but held off because of the depreciated trade in value of the Leaf. Especially with the COVID it's meeting my needs quite well for now. The head won out over the heart for now. I think 2021 is going to be a great year for EVs.
 
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