CuriousGeorge
Well-Known Member
You misread that article. The 2027 date refers to when BMW/MINI plan to start building SEs in Oxford again, not when the next generation model is to be released (which is 2024).
Is anyone holding out for the new version?
- Thread starter polyphonic
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You misread that article. The 2027 date refers to when BMW/MINI plan to start building SEs in Oxford again, not when the next generation model is to be released (which is 2024).
Alf_W
Active Member
The 2027 target for SEs in Oxford might correspond to when we get it in the US, though. As I understand it (from talking to the local dealer) there has been no indication from the corporate office that the Chinese-built MINI will make it here to the US. They were short on details, so it might be inference due to lack of concrete information.
I'm hoping that JO2 Acemen makes it here sometime, even if it is 2027. I'll just keep driving my '22 SE till then! Glad I got it and did not wait.
sacharama
Active Member
No I did not.
The Chinese made electric mini will be for the chinese market. So it's at least 2027 that you will see an new electric mini available in the north American market.
This article says, "The Mini’s US dealers are said to have been so impressed by the vehicle that they apparently even want to pay the import duty due in the USA. Whether the board in Munich shares the opinion of the US dealers is an open question. BMW declined to give the German trade newspaper a comment on the matter."
How US dealers could make a profit while paying the 27.5% import tariff is questionable.
It depends on how much the cars made in China cost; if they are cheap enough, the dealers would pass that tariff on to customers.
This and another report someone posted earlier said the dealers liked the preview of the car enough to say they would pick up the tariff. I don't believe the J01 will be 27.5% cheaper to build than the current SE.
CuriousGeorge
Well-Known Member
Who said anything about North America?
The fact remains that the next-gen will start being produced in 2024, not 2027. Production of the current version will cease at the same time.
Whether it ever comes here is still up in the air, but it's not just for the Chinese market.
All of the above has been known for nearly a year. That's why I sat on my hands so long, before finally ordering a 2023 in June for fear of losing out on the $7500 tax credit due to the 200,000 vehicle cap (only to be foiled by passage of the ZIRA).
sacharama
Active Member
I might be interested in an Oxford built Aceman if they tone down the comic book
North America, Europe, etc. My point is that the electric mini that's being made in China will be for the Chinese market and not be exported elsewhere.
It's true that the news about the next electric mini that will be made in China has been around for a while as you stated which implied that the next Chinese made electric mini will be available worldwide like the current mini.
But that news have changed recently and the market outside of the Chinese market will not see the next electric mini until 2027.
North America, Europe, etc. My point is that the electric mini that's being made in China will be for the Chinese market and not be exported elsewhere.
It's true that the news about the next electric mini that will be made in China has been around for a while as you stated which implied that the next Chinese made electric mini will be available worldwide like the current mini.
But that news have changed recently and the market outside of the Chinese market will not see the next electric mini until 2027.
teslarati97
Well-Known Member
Things are still up in the air, but it will really come down to the capital investment as BMW is getting the battery supply chain secured. I recall CATL and EVE Energy will be supplying the 46xx batteries for Europe and China so that's 4 gigafactories plus Envision AESC in South Carolina. There should be one more gigafactory for North America if they are keeping to their Neue Klasse press release.
Puppethead
Well-Known Member
I thought I read MINI recently changed plans and are going to continue to make the F56 SE at Oxford.
teslarati97
Well-Known Member
Up in the air, the board hasn't finalized plans just yet...mostly will come down to the availability of $$$ and battery partnerships to split capital investment costs.
Puppethead
Well-Known Member
MotorTrend has a comparison of the SE and the new Fiat 500e and the 500e sounds pretty uninspiring (bonus points for pointing out how pedestrian the Chevy Bolt is). The article repeatedly reminds the reader the SE is a conversion from ICE design while the 500e is an EV platform, and yet the SE comes out on top in almost every significant way except range. And oh yeah, it sounds like the 500e is going to cost more than the SE.
teslarati97
Well-Known Member
Yes but where the Fiat lacks in substance, it makes it all up in style. I mean come on, is that not the most stylish EVSE charging bag ever?? /sarcasm
It even puts the Tesla mobile connector bag to shame.
Alf_W
Active Member
From the Motor Trend article:
"Fiat brand CEO Olivier Francois has said that "The car will be expensive...."
I owned the earlier Fiat 500e before I got the SE. It was a fine little car, but the SE is more fun to drive, better appointed, more solidly built. At a comparable price point, the SE wins out in my mind.
But what I loved about the 500e was the price. I bought it used, off-lease, for a bargain price. And when I sold it to buy the SE, I basically got all my money back despite four years and 25K miles of trouble-free utilitarian driving.
The new 500e seems more upscale than the previous one, but pricing it high will make it a tough sell in the US IMHO. Fiat is not known as a luxury brand, and the already small market for small urban cars will be even smaller at a high price.
Good luck to Fiat on this. I want the new 500e to succeed, and I'll look for one on the used market in a few years.
"Fiat brand CEO Olivier Francois has said that "The car will be expensive...."
I owned the earlier Fiat 500e before I got the SE. It was a fine little car, but the SE is more fun to drive, better appointed, more solidly built. At a comparable price point, the SE wins out in my mind.
But what I loved about the 500e was the price. I bought it used, off-lease, for a bargain price. And when I sold it to buy the SE, I basically got all my money back despite four years and 25K miles of trouble-free utilitarian driving.
The new 500e seems more upscale than the previous one, but pricing it high will make it a tough sell in the US IMHO. Fiat is not known as a luxury brand, and the already small market for small urban cars will be even smaller at a high price.
Good luck to Fiat on this. I want the new 500e to succeed, and I'll look for one on the used market in a few years.
The F56 SE will likely be history by the time the revised Fiat 500e makes it to the US. I'm sure the J01 SE will outperform the 500e, but it's unclear if the J01 will make it to the US before 2027 or if it will cost even more than the 500e.
Puppethead
Well-Known Member
The new 500e does 0-60 mph in 9.0 seconds, which is Leaf-type performance, ugh. I have a friend who drives the original 500e, and I think it's a stylish little car (albeit with some shortcomings as a first-get EV), but at $40,000+ who's going to want to buy the new one?
SameGuy
Well-Known Member
MB pulled the plug on the smart brand in North America precisely because of this, and while it was fairly reasonably priced overall — and never marketed as “luxury” or “upscale” — it was still too expensive for what the median North American buyer expects in a car. MINI has had the premium or upscale small car market sewn up for itself for two decades, and I don’t believe there is room for another player in the foreseeable future… especially considering the FIAT marque’s reputation for unreliability on this side of the Atlantic.