Invisible Clarity

  • Thread starter Thread starter David Towle
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies Replies 19
  • Views Views 2K
David Towle said:
The Clarity is invisible to many in the automotive world, even more so to regular folks. As proof here's a review of the Insight and its clear the guy has no idea the Clarity even exists.

https://www.businessinsider.com/honda-insight-hybrid-rewview-pictures-2018-12
Click to expand...
I would buy an Accord Hybrid if I was in the market. It's larger, faster, and handles better than the Insight and in real world tests, it actually gets better mileage. I chatted with a salesman when my Clarity was serviced and he said all that is true.
 
Simply shocking to any Clarity owner! :) Although someone in the business should probably know better.
 
PHEV Newbie said:
I would buy an Accord Hybrid if I was in the market. It's larger, faster, and handles better than the Insight and in real world tests, it actually gets better mileage. I chatted with a salesman when my Clarity was serviced and he said all that is true.
Click to expand...
Of course we all believe 100% of what salesman say. That's why I just bought a $50,000 timeshare! (just kidding)
 
David Towle said:
Of course we all believe 100% of what salesman say. That's why I just bought a $50,000 timeshare! (just kidding)
Click to expand...
:D True that! I always do my research way ahead of visiting the dealer so the salesman's role is usually just to "get the manager's approval" on the price. Although my Clarity's negotiation was done 100% online. Nonetheless, the car pubs have given the Accord Hybrid stellar reviews while the Insight's have been lukewarm but still universally say that it's better than a Prius.
 
When we bought the Clarity we first researched online and narrowed the possibilities. Then we test-drove those vehicles. Of course our local small-town Honda dealer couldn't even spell C-l-a-r-i-t-y. I continue to be disappointed by Honda's lack of support of the car, and that was one factor in our decision of what to buy, but other factors offset it. The lack of a 2019 model is beginning to bother me; I love the Clarity but if Honda isn't going to support it that's troublesome.
 
My worry is that if it's a perennially low volume car, the parts situation will be awful once there's a redesign or cancel. At least many of the non drive-train parts seem to come from other high volume Honda models
 
MNS
MNSteve said:
When we bought the Clarity we first researched online and narrowed the possibilities. Then we test-drove those vehicles. Of course our local small-town Honda dealer couldn't even spell C-l-a-r-i-t-y. I continue to be disappointed by Honda's lack of support of the car, and that was one factor in our decision of what to buy, but other factors offset it. The lack of a 2019 model is beginning to bother me; I love the Clarity but if Honda isn't going to support it that's troublesome.
Click to expand...

MNSteve

Honda has committed to have a whole fleet of varying types of electric vehicles in the coming years so I do not believe long term support will be an issue.

From what I have read they are also committed to a 2019 Clarity coming to a showroom near you in January.

I bought the first run Clarity knowing it is a fluid engineering situation just like any other new vehicle. The vehicle power train etc is not what concerns me...its the $3,500 head unit that bothers me...what a rip off. Its a $500 Linux tablet all day long.

Hope this helps.

Good luck!
 
PHEV Newbie said:
I would buy an Accord Hybrid if I was in the market. It's larger, faster, and handles better than the Insight and in real world tests, it actually gets better mileage. I chatted with a salesman when my Clarity was serviced and he said all that is true.
Click to expand...
You expect a Honda salesperson to understand and promote the Clarity?

The Accord Hybrid does get better gas mileage, but only if you ignore the Clarity's main feature. I really enjoy EV driving, but the Accord Hybrid can act as an EV for only a couple of miles. Also, I'm sure Accord Hybrid and Insight owners hear the "angry bees" a lot more often than Clarity owners.

The 2018 Accord Hybrid is good for driving long distances without stopping for gas, but not as good as the 2017 Accord Hybrid. The 2018 gets 47/47/47 mpg and can go 601 miles on its 12.8-gallon tank, but the 2017 achieved 49/47/48 mpg and could go 696 miles on its 14.8-gallon tank.
 
JustAnotherPoorDriver said:
My worry is that if it's a perennially low volume car, the parts situation will be awful once there's a redesign or cancel. At least many of the non drive-train parts seem to come from other high volume Honda models
Click to expand...
I can still get parts for my gen-1 Honda Insight even though Honda brought fewer than 15,000 of them to North America before ending production in 2006.
 
Clarity_Newbie said:
Honda has committed to have a whole fleet of varying types of electric vehicles in the coming years so I do not believe long term support will be an issue.

From what I have read they are also committed to a 2019 Clarity coming to a showroom near you in January.

I bought the first run Clarity knowing it is a fluid engineering situation just like any other new vehicle. The vehicle power train etc is not what concerns me...its the $3,500 head unit that bothers me...what a rip off. Its a $500 Linux tablet all day long.
Click to expand...
Pardon the cynicism but corporate commitments don't mean much. All car makers have a stake in electric vehicles but, like all corporations, they're going to make tactical and strategic decisions based on their bottom lines. The future of electric vehicles depends on many factors including the price of gas, how battery technology develops (which in turn depends partly on the future of electric vehicles), government policy on subsidies, and public opinion. Plus, a commitment to electric vehicles does not translate to a commitment to the Clarity as is evidenced by what happened to the Volt.

I sprung for the extended warranty because of the immaturity of the technology and the price of its components. I am willing to put up with some pain from a new technology in the name of helping it develop. Anyway, I'm a geek and I enjoy this kind of thing. And I think it's important for environmental reasons.
 
MNSteve said:
Pardon the cynicism but corporate commitments don't mean much. All car makers have a stake in electric vehicles but, like all corporations, they're going to make tactical and strategic decisions based on their bottom lines. The future of electric vehicles depends on many factors including the price of gas, how battery technology develops (which in turn depends partly on the future of electric vehicles), government policy on subsidies, and public opinion. Plus, a commitment to electric vehicles does not translate to a commitment to the Clarity as is evidenced by what happened to the Volt.

I sprung for the extended warranty because of the immaturity of the technology and the price of its components. I am willing to put up with some pain from a new technology in the name of helping it develop. Anyway, I'm a geek and I enjoy this kind of thing. And I think it's important for environmental reasons.
Click to expand...

MNSteve

Not cynical at all...large corporations, including the automobile industry, have all earned their bottom feeder reputations. No argument there.

One thing about it...we will know the answer in a few years how committed Honda is to EV in general and the Clarity in particular. No sense worrying about it.

Good luck!
 
insightman said:
You expect a Honda salesperson to understand and promote the Clarity?

The Accord Hybrid does get better gas mileage, but only if you ignore the Clarity's main feature. I really enjoy EV driving, but the Accord Hybrid can act as an EV for only a couple of miles. Also, I'm sure Accord Hybrid and Insight owners hear the "angry bees" a lot more often than Clarity owners.

The 2018 Accord Hybrid is good for driving long distances without stopping for gas, but not as good as the 2017 Accord Hybrid. The 2018 gets 47/47/47 mpg and can go 601 miles on its 12.8-gallon tank, but the 2017 achieved 49/47/48 mpg and could go 696 miles on its 14.8-gallon tank.
Click to expand...
The angry bees issue should not happen as much with either the Accord or the Insight. They have relatively more gas hp and less electric hp, plus CVT transmissions. The Insight for example has a similar ICE but weighs 1100 pounds less!
 
David Towle said:
The angry bees issue should not happen as much with either the Accord or the Insight. They have relatively more gas hp and less electric hp, plus CVT transmissions. The Insight for example has a similar ICE but weighs 1100 pounds less!
Click to expand...

The current range of Honda hybrids all use the same drive train, just with different size ICE, electric motors and battery pack. It is the iMMD system, which is basically the simplest design for bridging an EV drivetrain and ICE drive train.

https://world.honda.com/automobile-technology/i-MMD/sp/

Both EV and ICE operate with their own single fixed gear ("2nd" gear for EV and overdrive ICE) and the system switches between them. Honda and Toyota both use the term eCVT, but there is not a mechanical gear shift, only variable EV motor speed change.

The biggest difference between the Accord and Clarity is the battery pack weight, that's why the Accord is relatively "quick." The hybrid Accord is only 200 lbs and about $1500 more than the base Accord, so it's getting close to even with the standard model, as it will eventually replace most of the base models in the future.

Even Toyota removed a planetary gear set from the latest Prius for efficiency.
"Transaxle and Electric Motor
The transaxle and motor have been redesigned, delivering a reduction in their combined weight. The motor itself is considerably more compact and gains a better power-to-weight ratio. Notably there is a 20 percent reduction in mechanical losses through friction compared to the previous model. The planetary gear arrangement in the reduction gear has been replaced with parallel gears, which further helps loss reduction."

https://toyotanews.pressroom.toyota.com/releases/2016+toyota+prius+technology.htm
 
Last edited:
I should point out that it was a struggle to keep weight down in the Clarity. Which is why I think the engine is 1.5 liter and not 2 liter. That's about 100 lbs saved, also the cheap speakers, magnet weight saved probably 20 lbs or more. Same with the small wiper fluid and gas tank, etc.. The were targeting the 17 kWh battery for the full tax credit.
 
David Towle said:
The Insight for example has a similar ICE but weighs 1100 pounds less!
Click to expand...
And a whole mile of EV-only capability.

Not to put down the Insight. All of us have different priorities on features. EV range was important to me, but I knew that I would be driving a heavier car. It will be interesting to see how battery technology changes in the next decade.
 
ab13 said:
The biggest difference between the Accord and Clarity is the battery pack weight, that's why the Accord is relatively "quick." The hybrid Accord is only 200 lbs and about $1500 more than the base Accord, so it's getting close to even with the standard model, as it will eventually replace most of the base models in the future.
Click to expand...
You don't think the 2 liter ICE in the Accord vs 1.5 liter in the Clarity helps make it relatively quick too?
 
ab13 said:
I should point out that it was a struggle to keep weight down in the Clarity. Which is why I think the engine is 1.5 liter and not 2 liter. That's about 100 lbs saved, also the cheap speakers, magnet weight saved probably 20 lbs or more. Same with the small wiper fluid and gas tank, etc.. The were targeting the 17 kWh battery for the full tax credit.
Click to expand...
Don't forget the aluminum suspension and the extensive use of aluminum and high-strength steel in the body. It's quite an achievement that the Clarity PHEV weighs less than 4,100 lbs.

I used to try to imagine the engineers battling the product packaging people when they "collaborated" on my 1,850-lb Insight. "What?!? Power windows? Do you know how much weight that will add? And power steering for a 1,750-lb car?! If you keep this up, this aluminum car's going to end up weighing more than 1,800 lbs!"
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top