Internal combustion bans

30kWh_Leaf said:
Those that can't adapt will go under. As battery sizes increase, so will the charge rate. Porsche is installing 350kW chargers in some of its premises and there is research going into 350-400 kW charging. 60kWh battery at 360kW is only 10 minutes from absolutely flat to almost fully charged. And, there is hope that batteries will be able to charge even faster in the not too distant future. Interesting times ahead. I'll be looking to buy the 60kWh Leaf or perhaps longer distance Tesla Model 3 when my lease on this Leaf runs out in June 2019.
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The issue becomes that with Wicked-Fast-Charging (WFC), if you want to make these broadly available... maybe not as much as gas stations but enough to be usable by millions... you're going to need some serious juice at the station site. It's one thing to pump out some level 2 and maybe even 3. But getting to these levels for the masses is an issue.

350kwh is wildly high. An electric clothes dryer is 5 on the high end. So you have 70 dryers for 1 car. If you line up 5 you have 350 clothes dryers churning away at once. That's a lot of load. And while you don't usually see 10 cars on even a super charger at full bore now, you will on highways for sure if everyone were electric. This does not even get to a point of pretty fast charging of like 10 minutes for 80%. If you're getting the masses to EVs you can't expect everyone to find 30-60 minutes extra each time they need to charge. That is not a reasonable expectation imo.

A problem that can be solved, but it's not just as simple as slap in some wicked-fast-chargers.
 
this is partially not true since some of the declarations have been to ban the sale of ice only cars after that date, and not necessarily to ban their usage.
but overall, it will likely be a moot point since it will be untenable and then turn into a tax - governments like tax revenue more than anything else.....
 
rosssr said:
this is partially not true since some of the declarations have been to ban the sale of ice only cars after that date, and not necessarily to ban their usage.
but overall, it will likely be a moot point since it will be untenable and then turn into a tax - governments like tax revenue more than anything else.....
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The bans being brought forward by cities restrict driving IC cars in them, while those being considered by countries are usually about the sale of new vehicles. This California one is taking the tactic of not registering new cars.
 
i am hoping that by 2040 california has either come to its senses, or become a separate country. so tired of that state.
 
rosssr said:
i am hoping that by 2040 california has either come to its senses, or become a separate country. so tired of that state.
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It's a good thing you have the freedom to not live there if you don't want to! :)

But the US would be in a really bad way if Texas or California ever became their own separate countries! And the citizens of both states know that. I'm guessing that's why people living in these two states often whine so loudly and threaten secession when they don't like what's going on in Washington.

I'd never consider moving to Cali but I'm glad it's there for me to visit! And I'm glad they push for EVs both with a carrot and a stick! (But at least here in Texas we are finally bringing back the EV rebate carrot.)
 
Feed The Trees said:
350kwh is wildly high.
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I'm pretty sure you mean 350 kW, not 350 kWh. kW is a measure of power; kWh is a measure of energy. Mixing up the units is like confusing gallons of gasoline with horsepower.

Feed The Trees said:
An electric clothes dryer is 5 on the high end. So you have 70 dryers for 1 car. If you line up 5 you have 350 clothes dryers churning away at once.
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If you compare residential power use to what I call ultra-fast-charging, and you're calling "wicked fast charging", then certainly it seems like a lot. But compared with industrial power use or even the amount of power that large commercial buildings draw, 1-2 MW (megawatts) simply isn't that much. Large skyscrapers sometimes draw more than 10 MW, and a single electric induction furnace can draw up to 42 MW.

Now, that's not to say that high power hookups will be cheap, or available anywhere. You want more power, you're going to pay more. Tesla may be guaranteeing 7¢ per kWh for Tesla Semi Trucks using Tesla Megachargers, but we can be pretty sure future BEV drivers charging at ultra-fast-chargers are going to be paying appreciably more than that. As they say: Convenience is worth paying for. Slow charging at home or at work should continue to be cheap, but ultra-fast-charging on the road is going to be closer to paying for gasoline. Fortunately, most people won't have to pay for that very often.
 
Domenick said:
A couple thoughts: it's so far away as to be practically meaningless, and it's quite likely the shift will already be well on its way, if not complete by that time. Also, there are any number of legislative efforts that could do more to hurry EV adoption now than this.
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agreed on the 'practically meaningless' at least on the promise side of things, as well as the shift likely being well under way. but I feel that words alone hold a lot of weight in the minds of the masses. look at people who believed what trump was saying would come to fruition. likewise with many of the automotive giants having to answer to shareholders who might very well be looking at the long game and feeling like every potential hindrance to their bottom-line being bloated is of importance ...a bunch of little shareholder voices asking what the automakers are going to do to adjust - let alone the suits feeling a need to take notice - I feel these moves are crucial to the right now regardless of quantifiable impact.
 
Domenick said:
First, for those following the thread, ANPR is Automatic number-plate recognition.

Yeah, even with the ban on new internal combustion cars, it will take some time to change over the existing ones. It will be interesting to see how these changes affect the price and availability of gas, thereby slowing or increasing adoption.

For instance, if a lot of people are buying electric cars, gas station operators will have fewer customers, and may need to raise prices to make up for the shortfall, since their business runs on very slim margins and depend on selling volumes of gas and snacks. This may increase the speed of the fleet turnover to electric considerably. Each time a gas station needs to raise the price, they encourage even more to go electric.

One could also imagine that lower demand might mean greater supply, thus lower prices. For a number of reasons, this scenario seems less likely, because there is only so low you can go, and it would only slow, not stop the changeover.
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I don't understand how motorists in this country (UK) aren't hammering down the doors of EV dealerships, I had the misfortune today of having to fill up on the motorway services, petrol was £1.38/litre x by 4.55 (UK gallon) =£6.28 / $8.40:eek::mad:
 
silversod said:
I don't understand how motorists in this country (UK) aren't hammering down the doors of EV dealerships, I had the misfortune today of having to fill up on the motorway services, petrol was £1.38/litre x by 4.55 (UK gallon) =£6.28 / $8.40:eek::mad:
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Yeah, I sometimes use an Ecotricity charger at a services, and I have noticed when leaving the services that the diesel was £1.39.9- the somewhat perverse twist being that just a mile or so off the M1 there, there's a Sainsbury's with diesel at £1.14.9.
 
silversod said:
I've just been reading China has banned 553 car models due to bad fuel economy...
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Politicians in first-world countries are mostly just giving lip service to banning ICE vehicles. Contrariwise, the Chinese government is actually taking steps to do so! I'm not ready to chant "Go Chinese Communist government!", because it's a totalitarian regime, trampling its citizens and denying them human rights. But it's certainly true that when a totalitarian government decides to make something happen, then things move in that direction pretty quickly!

That point was also made in Frederik Pohl's novel Chernobyl, a novelization of the events surrounding that disaster. Centralized authority made it possible for the Soviets to react very quickly and decisively in response to the disaster.
 
Looks like the diesel car sales slide will continue this year in the UK where new diesel car sales figures fell by 17% in 2017.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42615559
The worst is yet to come for diesel cars which will see their sales continue to plunge, a study has warned.

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silversod said:
Looks like the diesel car sales slide will continue this year in the UK where new diesel car sales figures fell by 17% in 2017.
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I was shocked and disappointed when diesel car sales in Europe fell only ~20% in the months after the Dieselgate scandal broke. But I'm very, very glad to learn that sales are continuing to drop on a long-term basis. That is the best way to punish auto makers for the fraud.
 
And, California is going to permit fully autonomous vehicles on their roads. Once countries permit this, it will only be about ten years before we have Transport as a Service as advocated by Tony Seba.
 
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