Increased charger speed???

B

Bruce Jankowitz

New Member
My wife and I love our Kona EV. Our lease is done soon and looking at what's next. We'd consider keeping the Kona but the DC charge speed is too low.

The Ioniq5 and EV6 are on our list due to their charge speeds. Just looked at a nearby KIA dealer and they a adding a crazy market adjustment($10K) so its a non-starter there.

Thru the regen paddle it can handle 150KW so it made me wonder. Mine is a 2019 so it's battery cooling may be an issue. Does anyone know if there is a reputable retro-fit to boost the max DCFC rate?
 
Short answer to your question is unfortunately no. Even if you could find someone who could hack the BMS programming it would no doubt void your battery warranty. Presumably there is a good reason LG and Hyundai engineers felt the current DC charge profile was the safest for the existing battery chemistry/architecture. If I had a wish it would be nice if the current battery temperature threshold were a little lower so at least you could possibly reach 77kWh max on more consistent basis in winter.
 
Of course, if the only DCFCs in your area are limited to 50 kW (or run by Petrocan and broken or unreliable for a year), the speed your car can charge is moot!

In my end of the country, the several 50 kWs are having issues, and when its the only CCS plug for 60 km, you're hooped. Hope you're blessed with being in an area with more companies installing infrastructure than NB/NS or mainly charge at home like me. And like apu says, winter throws its own wrench into the mix by coldgating your charge depending on battery temps....
 
Rob Fitzgerald said:
Apparently the new model year has faster charging.
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First I heard of that. any links?
maybe they will match the original specs (2018 MY) - note the reference to 100kW charging extended battery type:
img_20190405_135853-jpg.114676

Are Hyundai Sneakily Changing the specs.. (Lower Charging Speed) | Speak EV - Electric Car Forums
 
Rob Fitzgerald said:
I think it was actually on Inside EVs that I saw it, today. It said 10-80% im 45 mins.

Edit: It was the Niro.
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I saw that article. The battery apparently has 64.7 kW capacity. If that's the case a 45 minute 70%(roughly 45kW) charge in ideal conditions would put it around 60-70kWh which is tragically slow especially for a new EV.

In comparison the ID4 can peak charge 125kWh but averages closer to 110 kWh from 0-80% in about the 40 minutes delivering around 65kW.
 
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Hyundai never advertised more than 75 kW charging speed for a Kona EV. Some people saw up to 77 kW.
Probably they could push the battery to 100 kW or even more when temperatures and SOC is in appropriate range, but they probably selected to be conservative.
We know that for regen braking they are able to push it even above 150 kW.
 
I'm surprised to read that regen could be as high as 150 kW. The most aggressive peaks I've been
able to record have been in the seventies, anything more felt like it wanted to put my head through
the windshield. On the other hand, the max charge power available reported at midrange SOC and
optimal temps is usually 170 kW. Does the inverter actually measure up to that in high demand events?

_H*
 
I apologize if this is covered in another thread and/or is too unrelated to this one - but why does my Kona seem to charge at different speeds at the same fast charger on different days? (Let alone at different chargers that advertise as providing the same power)
 
hobbit said:
I'm surprised to read that regen could be as high as 150 kW. The most aggressive peaks I've been
able to record have been in the seventies, anything more felt like it wanted to put my head through
the windshield. On the other hand, the max charge power available reported at midrange SOC and
optimal temps is usually 170 kW. Does the inverter actually measure up to that in high demand events?
_H*
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It will but you need to start at somewhere around 160 km/h. There was a video posted some years ago of a Kona decelerating from various speeds in Germany that showed this.
Battery, inverter and motor performance is presumably all about thermal resistance and thermal mass resulting in a continuous rating and higher ratings for inversely shorter times. Tesla specifically design their batteries for low thermal resistance and are therefore able to achieve high charge levels by being able to conduct heat away at high rates. Every part of every cell is only perhaps 18mm max away from a cooling channel while the Kona flat cells are in stacks with cooling provided only at the underside. A cell could be 80mm away and the heat has to travel through several other cells to get out.
I'm not sure how long the Kona could drive at top speed or what power level is required to do that but it would only need to be asked on the German owners forum to find out.
 
eCork said:
I apologize if this is covered in another thread and/or is too unrelated to this one - but why does my Kona seem to charge at different speeds at the same fast charger on different days? (Let alone at different chargers that advertise as providing the same power)
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Battery SoC and temperature play a big role in how fast it can charge. Both L1 and L2 are slow enough that it's not a problem, but DCFC will need to reduce total power if the battery is too cold, too hot, too low on charge, or too close to fully charged.

The ambient temperature outside may also be a factor, since that effects the battery temperature and how easily the car can dispose of the extra heat, e.g. if it's a really hot day the car may reduce charging power because it has difficulty keeping the battery from getting too hot.
 
Also regen charging lasts only up to few seconds. Even a Prius handled 15C+ regen rates with a NiMH battery and simple air cooling.
 
Bruce Jankowitz said:
My wife and I love our Kona EV. Our lease is done soon and looking at what's next. We'd consider keeping the Kona but the DC charge speed is too low.

The Ioniq5 and EV6 are on our list due to their charge speeds. Just looked at a nearby KIA dealer and they a adding a crazy market adjustment($10K) so its a non-starter there.

Thru the regen paddle it can handle 150KW so it made me wonder. Mine is a 2019 so it's battery cooling may be an issue. Does anyone know if there is a reputable retro-fit to boost the max DCFC rate?
Click to expand...

You can find an Ioniq 5/Kia EV6 for MSRP; you just have to do some heavy lifting and search for a dealer. I just spoke to a guy who bought the 5 at sticker after the dealer originally wanted $3K over asking. The car had been sitting on the lot for 30 days and the buyer was able to get him to forgo the markup. At some point, the dealers are going to drop the markups if enough people refuse to pay them.
 
In 2024-35 Toyota is coming out with an EV that will revolutionize the EV industry. Their battery will be able to be charged fully in 5 minutes, just like a gasoline fill-up. I would research that and wait for that vehicle to come out.
 
Genevamech said:
Battery SoC and temperature play a big role in how fast it can charge. Both L1 and L2 are slow enough that it's not a problem, but DCFC will need to reduce total power if the battery is too cold, too hot, too low on charge, or too close to fully charged.

The ambient temperature outside may also be a factor, since that effects the battery temperature and how easily the car can dispose of the extra heat, e.g. if it's a really hot day the car may reduce charging power because it has difficulty keeping the battery from getting too hot.
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While what you said is true, the nice thing about the Kona EV is that the D/C power can use the heat pump to warm up or cool down the battery for optimum charging.
 
Consider the "King" of EV's, the Tesla ... any model. It fixes all of your concerns, and more. Can easily charge to 150 kW and often to 250 kW at any of the Tesla SuperChargers that are everywhere in the traveled North American highway network. Plus you always get OTA (Over-the-Air) software updates and be assured of driving in the safest car on the planet.
 
apu said:
I saw that article. The battery apparently has 64.7 kW capacity. If that's the case a 45 minute 70%(roughly 45kW) charge in ideal conditions would put it around 60-70kWh which is tragically slow especially for a new EV.

In comparison the ID4 can peak charge 125kWh but averages closer to 110 kWh from 0-80% in about the 40 minutes delivering around 65kW.
Click to expand...
You've got your units reversed. Battery capacity and energy are measured in kWh. Charging rate is measured in kW, a unit of power.

If you charge at 50 kW * 1 hour --> 50 kWh came out of the unit.
50 kW * 2 hours --> 100 kWh

Multiply the units and values.

Look again at specs and what a charger shows you.
 
The charging in the Kona is pretty standard for a 3 year old design. I have yet to DC charge my Niro, but if the DC charge time bugs you, I would suggest using the cross country strategy, run it low and charge it briefly. It is more time efficient

I think if I couldn't charge at home I would arrange my errands to be near the local chargers
Of course at this point in time I probably would not have bought an EV in that case
 
KiwiME said:
It will but you need to start at somewhere around 160 km/h. There was a video posted some years ago of a Kona decelerating from various speeds in Germany that showed this.
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Hi @KiwiME ,

no no, I have done 150kW regen with lower speeds ; something like 110km/h, but a heavy foot on the brakes of course ;)

I have noticed as well a "Refuse to regen" case, which surprised me, the battery was not closed to 100% but more like 95% ; the BMS seems smart enough to disable a too strong regen if conditions are not good. (ok it is only an empirical note of mine, but still ...).
[EDIT : I own a Kona 64]

For the record (and disappointment of people who signed here https://www.change.org/p/kia-motors...21-hyundai-kona-ev-new-hyundai-ioniq5-kia-ev6 ), a french Radio Podcast invited a Kia company officer and the question was asked about charging speed for the eNIRO => no upgrade is planned at all, the existing model will not evolve on this point :(
 
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