High voltage battery in 2022 SE from 2017 BMWI3 /ancient technology

[AndysComputer]

It’s not so much a question of old tech as the fact the newer battery cells could not be positioned into the t shape pack as they are a different size. I am also under the impression the cells used in the SE are not actually the same cells as used in the i3, that it’s even a different supplier?
So how old the tech is is open to debate.

One question I do have is about that last i3 battery… as that model was not offered with a range extender as far as I know, is it better technology that has allowed them to give more capacity in the same space, or were they able to use more space to fit in a physically larger pack and thus that also at least partially contributes to the capacity increase?

As long as the Mini pack retains good capacity over the years it’s fine with me (and the I i3 data suggests it will although again, it’s technically a different pack) as the range on the SE is much better than advertised in my experience and I laugh when I consider that the taller skinnier tired i3 used all that carbon fiber and cost so much to buy but the Mini ends up more efficient. I’m convinced BMW are sand bagging the SE figures, both in terms of range and 0-60 to avoid making the i3 look bad. At 0-60 in 6.2/6.3s real world the i3 looks like a bad buy and the only reason the SE doesn’t just blow it away is the fact it’s power limited when launching presumably due to being FWD vs the RWD i3. I’d love to know what a RWD SE would be capable of…

 

[CuriousGeorge]

It’s not so much a question of old tech as the fact the newer battery cells could not be positioned into the t shape pack as they are a different size. I am also under the impression the cells used in the SE are not actually the same cells as used in the i3, that it’s even a different supplier?
So how old the tech is is open to debate.

One question I do have is about that last i3 battery… as that model was not offered with a range extender as far as I know, is it better technology that has allowed them to give more capacity in the same space, or were they able to use more space to fit in a physically larger pack and thus that also at least partially contributes to the capacity increase?

As long as the Mini pack retains good capacity over the years it’s fine with me (and the I i3 data suggests it will although again, it’s technically a different pack) as the range on the SE is much better than advertised in my experience and I laugh when I consider that the taller skinnier tired i3 used all that carbon fiber and cost so much to buy but the Mini ends up more efficient. I’m convinced BMW are sand bagging the SE figures, both in terms of range and 0-60 to avoid making the i3 look bad. At 0-60 in 6.2/6.3s real world the i3 looks like a bad buy and the only reason the SE doesn’t just blow it away is the fact it’s power limited when launching presumably due to being FWD vs the RWD i3. I’d love to know what a RWD SE would be capable of…

I believe that the SE uses batteries from CATL.

Agreed that the i3's use of tall, narrow tires in search of efficiency hurt it in other ways. Now that tech has advanced to where the SE is actually more (as?) efficient, I'm wondering what a cross between the two (i.e., the i3's carbon fiber construction combined with the SE's wider tires) would be like.

 

[Cheap Sunglasses]

I’m convinced BMW are sand bagging the SE figures, both in terms of range and 0-60 to avoid making the i3 look bad. At 0-60 in 6.2/6.3s real world the i3 looks like a bad buy and the only reason the SE doesn’t just blow it away is the fact it’s power limited when launching presumably due to being FWD vs the RWD i3.

A drag race between the i3 and the Mini Cooper SE:

 

[Puppethead]

If anything, I think MINI might have nerfed the SE because they didn't want it to outperform the JCW. It performs just slightly worse than the JCW from what I've seen.

 

[insightman]

I believe that the SE uses batteries from CATL.

Agreed that the i3's use of tall, narrow tires in search of efficiency hurt it in other ways. Now that tech has advanced to where the SE is actually more (as?) efficient, I'm wondering what a cross between the two (i.e., the i3's carbon fiber construction combined with the SE's wider tires) would be like.

Just yesterday I was wondering what it would cost me to have a carbon-fiber body made for my SE (w/o hood scoop, of course). Based on the cost of aftermarket carbon-fiber MINI hoods (all with hood scoops), it wouldn't be cheap.

 

[teslarati97]

One question I do have is about that last i3 battery… as that model was not offered with a range extender as far as I know, is it better technology that has allowed them to give more capacity in the same space, or were they able to use more space to fit in a physically larger pack and thus that also at least partially contributes to the capacity increase?

There were 3 revisions to the i3 Samsung SDI battery and 2 for the i3s (2018+) the physical 96 cell / 8 module dimensions did not change:
2014-2016 60Ah (21.6kWh gross) NCM 333 "stacked paper ream" layered sheets
2017-2018 94Ah (33.2kWh gross) NCM 333 "jelly roll" sheets (more efficient use of surface area)
2019+ 120Ah (42.2kWh gross) NCM 622 chemistry update (same dimensions as previous)

The MINI uses the same 94Ah chemistry but CATL version is a shorter prismatic cell designed for double stacking (fuel tank area). As for the city efficiency of the i3, you can hypermile to 8mi/kWh but that requires 35MPH and slower driving.

 

[CuriousGeorge]

A drag race between the i3 and the Mini Cooper SE:

Although what I haven't seen is a drag race between an SE and an i3s.

 

[AndysComputer]

I’m pretty sure there is a video of the SE vs the i3s, but it wasn’t in English I don’t think…
The i3s won but I can only assume that is due to it being ever so slightly lighter and more importantly RWD. It’s difficult to get under 6s in a FWD car, most (like the Mini) limit the launch power.
I believe if they put the motor in the back of the Mini it would greatly improve the launch off the line and beat the i3s. But Minis have always been FWD so…

 

[SameGuy]

An electric JCW GP would be balls

 

[insightman]

An electric JCW GP would be balls

You would have to sacrifice something to get a more powerful motor--would you choose less range or more weight?

 

[Puppethead]

You would have to sacrifice something to get a more powerful motor--would you choose less range or more weight?

I would think a GP would need dual motors for more power, which wouldn't add too much more weight. And it would be possible since GPs don't have rear seats. Of course if you're going to drive a GP like it's meant to be, you'd want more battery which could mean more weight.

 

[Rexsio]

A drag race between the i3 and the Mini Cooper SE:

2014 just electric without range extender will beat any SE weight difference 550 lbs and is rear drive car

 

[CuriousGeorge]

2014 just electric without range extender will beat any SE weight difference 550 lbs and is rear drive car View attachment 17179

Was the i3 really limited to only 77.7 mph?

 

[teslarati97]

Was the i3 really limited to only 77.7 mph?

About 93 MPH for the i3. BMW speedometers usually read higher than actual speed.

 

[polyphonic]

The whole clean-sheet EV debate is interesting. Certainly it seems unfortunate that BMW is using a gas platform for the i4, a premium car released 5 years after the Model 3. I drove one and really don’t have much to say. It was a BMW car. No complaints.

We also owned an i3 (clean sheet design), and Mini SE at the same time. Cool car, but the SE is vastly more comfortable, quiet, and fun to drive. Of the two of them it was, ironically, the better designed vehicle. The i3 had so many compromises including the doors, bicycle tires, junky range extender, and noisy carbon fiber frame. Mini? Just the range and I am totally cool with that. The i3 is gone while the Mini is still with us (and another is on order).

 

[teslarati97]

The whole clean-sheet EV debate is interesting. Certainly it seems unfortunate that BMW is using a gas platform for the i4, a premium car released 5 years after the Model 3. I drove one and really don’t have much to say. It was a BMW car. No complaints.

I'm not quite sure what else they could have done for the i4? There is already a structural battery pack but I suppose they forgot the whoopee cushion feature.

 

[polyphonic]

View attachment 17180

I'm not quite sure what else they could have done for the i4? There is already a structural battery pack but I suppose they forgot the whoopee cushion feature.

With a clean sheet design probably improve packaging and lower the weight. The Lucid for example has incredible interior volume for the exterior size. Better than an ICE car.

Only had 20 minutes with the i4 but it was noticeably tighter inside than a 3 series. Also no frunk, which would be fine if they repurposed that space into the cabin but instead the engine bay has a lot of wasted space.

Not sure what’s contained within the transmission tunnel, but that’s there too for the back passengers to enjoy. The iX (and i3) front center area are quite spacious due to that being gone.

 

[insightman]

With a clean sheet design probably improve packaging and lower the weight. The Lucid for example has incredible interior volume for the exterior size. Better than an ICE car.

Only had 20 minutes with the i4 but it was noticeably tighter inside than a 3 series. Also no frunk, which would be fine if they repurposed that space into the cabin but instead the engine bay has a lot of wasted space.

Not sure what’s contained within the transmission tunnel, but that’s there too for the back passengers to enjoy. The iX (and i3) front center area are quite spacious due to that being gone.

Great Wall Motor's Ora Good Cat has no frunk, so it's doubtful the derivative 2024 SE will have one.



Are there any small EVs that have room for a frunk?

 

[teslarati97]

With a clean sheet design probably improve packaging and lower the weight. The Lucid for example has incredible interior volume for the exterior size. Better than an ICE car.

Only had 20 minutes with the i4 but it was noticeably tighter inside than a 3 series. Also no frunk, which would be fine if they repurposed that space into the cabin but instead the engine bay has a lot of wasted space.

Absolutely the Lucid Air is one engineering marvel except I wouldn't want to drive that during the winter.

It's always the great debate on 3 Series vs 4 Series Gran Coupe. Do you want a made in North America (Plant San Luis Potosi, Mexico) for the 3 series or Germany (Plant Munich) for the 4 series GC and i4? Do you want the convenience of an electric hatchback (i4 & 4 series GC) at trade off of interior spaciousness?

As for the frunk it's a hit or miss kind of thing. The frunk in the i3 was always filthy from leaves and road salt if they sealed it like the Mach-E then for sure I'd have a tailgate party...or do I call it a frunkgate EV party??

 

[polyphonic]

Great Wall Motor's Ora Good Cat has no frunk, so it's doubtful the derivative 2024 SE will have one.

View attachment 17183

Are there any small EVs that have room for a frunk?

i3, but like @teslarati97 said, it was exposed to the elements. I attached a backpack cover to mine and it solved that issue. A third party company in Germany made a retrofit seal which is the more elegant solution. BMW left some space in the rear as well for BEV-only models. That same company made a new trunk insert to reclaim additional space.

Absolutely the Lucid Air is one engineering marvel except I wouldn't want to drive that during the winter.

It's always the great debate on 3 Series vs 4 Series Gran Coupe. Do you want a made in North America (Plant San Luis Potosi, Mexico) for the 3 series or Germany (Plant Munich) for the 4 series GC and i4? Do you want the convenience of an electric hatchback (i4 & 4 series GC) at trade off of interior spaciousness?

As for the frunk it's a hit or miss kind of thing. The frunk in the i3 was always filthy from leaves and road salt if they sealed it like the Mach-E then for sure I'd have a tailgate party...or do I call it a frunkgate EV party??

View attachment 17185

No qualms with my American-made X3! I'm not big on frunks either, unless they are dead-easy to open like the F150 Lightening. Hard pressing the hood of an expensive Tesla or Porsche to close the frunk just seems wrong. F150 has a physical button right outside of the frunk. Also, it's huge and thus actually quite practical.
It's just an example of a small piece of space that could be re-purposed. An extra inch or two of interior space is actually significant.

Never drove a 4 series to compare it to a 3, but like the Taycan I was surprised by the interior dimensions of the i4 compared to the exterior. i4 seemed better though from that standpoint. Outside of the Mini I haven't found much to get excited about in the German EV space. Lucid/Rivian and even Ford seem to be killing it.

What's wrong with the Lucid Air in the winter?