High cost of electricity slows EV sales in Northeast

[KentuckyKen]

And then there is this:

https://www.vox.com/energy-and-envi...nuclear-coal-plants-renewables-efficiency-hb6

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Boy, gotta file that under sad but true. It seems both political parties are corrupt. They’re just corrupted by different groups. Our founding fathers would be ashamed of the sorry situation we seem to find ourselves in. No matter who wins the next election, I fear for our Republic. (Well, maybe a little more for one party over the other, but not by much) Nuff said.

Notice how I tiptoed through the political minefield of party politics. I like how this forum stays focused on the Clarity and electric cars, and not political arguments like my party/politician can beat up yours.

 

[Ken7]

For all y’all in the NE and W Coast where power costs are are so much more than my $0.10/kwh (24/7) in KY, here is possibly a silver lining in your cloud.

Those high rates will make solar PV much more attractive by reducing the # of years to break even. Also those areas seem to be the ones where there are more utility, local, and state financial incentives. If you’re not planning on moving, it might be time to get some estimates and calculations about going solar PV. The Federal 30% tax credit starts being reduced next year though (from 30% to 27% I think).
And, if your roof needs replacing, you can claim that 30% tax credit on the entire cost of the roof if you add solar at the same time.

When you add up all the incentives and tax rebates (especially if you also need a new roof), solar can be a rather more attractive financial proposition than you my have thought.

Here in non-progressive KY where we have no incentives beyond the Fed tax credit and low electric rates, my break even point is 9 years ($1.50/W installed cost, net metering, $0.10/kWh rate, 4% rate increases). I bet with your higher rates and more incentives, your break even point would be considerably sooner.

You can calculate your anticipated savings and break even point with on line aids or have the solar companies calculate it. Most use the Aurora software and it has proven very accurate for the 7 months my system has been up and running. Just do your homework and be sure they plug in reasonable figures and assumptions in the software so you don’t get a pie in the sky spreadsheet. They will of course tend to paint a very rosy picture as they try to sell you.

I will never have another electric bill other than the $14 base fee and my solar system is guaranteed for 25 years for both production and parts (5 years labor). And I can run the ac and heat at whatever temp I want with no guilt and charge my Clarity all I want.
Plus, you just can’t put a price on being able to tell your local utility to “Kiss My Grits!!!”.

You should check it out.

Ken, I’d jump on it if I could, but I live in a condo. The exterior, including the roof, is not the property of the owner.

 

[KentuckyKen]

Ken, I’d jump on it if I could, but I live in a condo. The exterior, including the roof, is not the property of the owner.

My son has the same problem at his Condo and won’t even look at an EV since he has no way to charge it. He has a garage but it’s wired for just the opener and nothing else because the Condo Assoc. pays for the power there.

The Condos will probably be the last places that adapt to the coming (and inevitable) EV trend. I anticipate much gnashing of teeth and much expense since they are not set up for easy charging infrastructure (or solar either).

 

[Walt R]

Ken, I’d jump on it if I could, but I live in a condo. The exterior, including the roof, is not the property of the owner.

You still have options. Look into community solar, where a coop buys a solar install on a common site together. That site doesn't need to be anywhere near your residence. And, through electric choice you can switch to 100% renewable for no or minimal cost penalty in many places.

This video talks to one community solar installer:

 

[KentuckyKen]

Thanks for the video. I pulled off an interesting metric on the number of EVs sold in 2018 and the relative number per each state to share with those who don’t have the time to watch the video. 328,118 total.
Surprisingly, Kentucky is not quite the lowest adopter of EVs. It will be interesting to compare this map with one in 20 years.

 

[Ken7]

My son has the same problem at his Condo and won’t even look at an EV since he has no way to charge it. He has a garage but it’s wired for just the opener and nothing else because the Condo Assoc. pays for the power there.

The Condos will probably be the last places that adapt to the coming (and inevitable) EV trend. I anticipate much gnashing of teeth and much expense since they are not set up for easy charging infrastructure (or solar either).

Fortunately I can do what I want within the garage and interior. So I have two 240v outlets for the Tesla & Clarity in the garage, but as I mentioned before, I’m charging the S at Superchargers now. I need to find some way to beat these guys at their own game.

 

[Ken7]

You still have options. Look into community solar, where a coop buys a solar install on a common site together. That site doesn't need to be anywhere near your residence. And, through electric choice you can switch to 100% renewable for no or minimal cost penalty in many places.

This video talks to one community solar installer:

The condo is now looking at installing solar on the clubhouse. Small steps.

 

[Lowell_Greenberg]

Boy, gotta file that under sad but true. It seems both political parties are corrupt. They’re just corrupted by different groups. Our founding fathers would be ashamed of the sorry situation we seem to find ourselves in. No matter who wins the next election, I fear for our Republic. (Well, maybe a little more for one party over the other, but not by much) Nuff said.

Notice how I tiptoed through the political minefield of party politics. I like how this forum stays focused on the Clarity and electric cars, and not political arguments like my party/politician can beat up yours.

Thanks. But you pointed out how government tax credits helped you justify your personal investment in solar. What I pointed out indirectly in that link, is that such tax credits are in danger of going away in some states with Republican controlled legislatures and in Ohio's case citizens will pay a surcharge to subsidize coal plants.

In summary, government policy, whether some like it or not, has a major influence on EV adoption rates. And, I would contend, that as long as fossil fuels are subsidized, and OPEC essentially sets the price of oil- these adoption rates will remain low- regardless of environmental concerns or market based economics.

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[Ken7]

I think OPEC's influence is now greatly lessened in the U.S. in that we have virtually no dependence on foreign oil anymore. We are now a net exporter of oil. With that said, I'd certainly like to see more favorable policies toward tax credits for renewable.

 

[MajorAward]

...as long as fossil fuels are subsidized...

You nailed it right here.

 

[MajorAward]

I think OPEC's influence is now greatly lessened in that we have virtually no dependence on foreign oil anymore. We are now a net exporter of oil. With that said, I'd certainly like to see more favorable policies toward tax credits for renewable.

Or follow my state's (Georgia) enlightened approach, and reduce incentives...Oh, and since there are no other problems to fix here, pour lemon juice on the wound by adding fees such as:

Effective July 1, 2019, the annual Alternative Fuel Vehicle licensing fees set out below must be paid at the time of initial registration or renewal of all qualifying vehicles. The following Alternative Fuel Vehicle fees will apply to all registrations that begin on or have a renewal date of July 1, 2019 or later.

Commercial Motor Vehicle Fee: $319.27 Non-Commercial Motor Vehicle Fee: $212.78

I understand money is required to maintain roads, but how about putting a little thought into it.

Note: To be fair the tag fees are actually slightly lower than 2018, but still..

 

[2002]

Or follow my state's (Georgia) enlightened approach, and reduce incentives...Oh, and since there are no other problems to fix here, pour lemon juice on the wound by adding fees such as:

Effective July 1, 2019, the annual Alternative Fuel Vehicle licensing fees set out below must be paid at the time of initial registration or renewal of all qualifying vehicles. The following Alternative Fuel Vehicle fees will apply to all registrations that begin on or have a renewal date of July 1, 2019 or later.

Commercial Motor Vehicle Fee: $319.27 Non-Commercial Motor Vehicle Fee: $212.78

I understand money is required to maintain roads, but how about putting a little thought into it.

Note: To be fair the tag fees are actually slightly lower than 2018, but still..

Fortunately the new fee doesn't apply to PHEV unless you have an alternative fuel license plate. I didn't get an alternative fuel plate because I rarely use the express lanes and the cost of the plate for me isn't worth it. Although if I had a daily commute on a freeway with express lanes I might have considered it. But if there is now a $212 fee on top of the license plate fee that would certainly cut a big chunk out of the savings and for me probably make it not worth it, but for some people it still might be cheaper than having to pay normal Peach Pass prices five days a week.

Also I haven't found out the status lately but in May the Republican lawmakers in Georgia introduced a bill to reinstate the electric vehicle tax credit starting in July 2020, albeit only $2,500 this time not $5,000 like the previous one a few years ago, but unlike the last one this new bill includes PHEV. The bill seems to have a good chance of passing so hopefully it will even though it won't help us unless we get another electric vehicle.

 

[MajorAward]

Fortunately the new fee doesn't apply to PHEV unless you have an alternative fuel license plate. I didn't get an alternative fuel plate because I rarely use the express lanes and the cost of the plate for me isn't worth it. Although if I had a daily commute on a freeway with express lanes I might have considered it. But if there is now a $212 fee on top of the license plate fee that would certainly cut a big chunk out of the savings and for me probably make it not worth it, but for some people it still might be cheaper than having to pay normal Peach Pass prices five days a week.

Also I haven't found out the status lately but in May the Republican lawmakers in Georgia introduced a bill to reinstate the electric vehicle tax credit starting in July 2020, albeit only $2,500 this time not $5,000 like the previous one a few years ago, but unlike the last one this new bill includes PHEV. The bill seems to have a good chance of passing so hopefully it will even though it won't help us unless we get another electric vehicle.

I didn't get the special plate either, as it made zero sense for my situation. And I hope you are right about the new bill. I will applaud either party introducing sane legislation. Unfortunately, both sides just want to posture and play to the camera most of the time.

 

[CyberDyneSystems]

My Clarity gets it's power from Solar.. it's fantastic!

 

[Industrial]

Our electric cost just tipped over .21/kw in NH. It made going solar a really easy decision with the current level of incentives and the available solar loan plans. We got to lock in our rate for the next 12 years and then after that, we own the panels outright. There is no downside if you have stable employment and don’t intend to move.

 

[MPower]

because the Condo Assoc. pays for the power there.

That is my situation, but I just reimburse the association for the power. I have been paying quarterly since I got my first PHEV in 20012 (Prius). I charge at 110 through a Kill a Watt type meter. Every quarter I email the treasurer to get the most recent rate and then just multiply and reset the meter.

 

[KentuckyKen]

That is my situation, but I just reimburse the association for the power. I have been paying quarterly since I got my first PHEV in 20012 (Prius). I charge at 110 through a Kill a Watt type meter. Every quarter I email the treasurer to get the most recent rate and then just multiply and reset the meter.

Unfortunately, at my son’s condo the garages are detached from the main structure and are only fed by a single 15 Amp 110 V line. It would take a massive and very costly rewiring to make it work.
Glad your set up is working and your Board is accommodating.

 

[Tangible]

Wow, I didn't realize the cost of electricity was that high in some of our country. I feel lucky to live in Utah where I pay 8.6 cents/KWh October thru March and 9.63 cents/KWh April thru September.

You also get one Senator for every 1.5 million people, while California gets one for every 20 million. Funny country.

 

[2002]

You also get one Senator for every 1.5 million people, while California gets one for every 20 million. Funny country.

Designed on purpose like that by the Founding Fathers so that smaller states would not be completely overpowered by the states with larger population. Meanwhile providing that in the House of Representatives the representation more reflects population. The two houses (or chambers) of Congress then have to work together to enact legislation (the Senate is often referred to as a "house" when referred to in that context).

 

[Chuck]

Found this little chart years ago for looking at gas price vs. kWh cost. The MPGe makes it confusing but it does show where it turns to red as electric price increase and it becomes cheaper to run with gas. Pretty accurate, given the Clarity is rated at 3.35 miles per kWh and with gas at $3/gal it works out to anything over $.24/kWh it is cheaper to use gas. This is where the chart goes to red. Besides, I like anything with a lot of numbers displayed in a great lump.