Having fun with Autoline Daily

[Pushmi-Pullyu]

...and lose how much investors money?

Anyone who became an investor in Tesla stock within the first 2-1/2 years after IPO has seen his investment increase by a factor of about 10x to 15x.

You have a very strange definition of "lose", dude.

 

[David Green]

Certainly, they are in a different line of business, so in that respect, not apples-to-apples, but Amazon does have plenty of issues.
Amazon faces fines following the death of a second warehouse worker in as many months
Big Tech Has the Supply Chain Blues

Yes, Amazon has so many parts to their business, and have acquired competitors, and changed the way we buy things, Tesla on the other hand has not changed much or put anybody out of business... Their nearest competitors have had sales increases, and record profits, all the while Tesla loses money year after year. Tesla will lose big again in 2018, even if they cut all future spending, and squeeze the suppliers 3rd and 4th Qtr profit will not overcome Q1, and Q2 losses. Elon does not know how to run a manufacturing business, its very clear to anyone paying attention. The scariest part is that the Tesla & Musk brands are losing value, this is a slippery slope.

 

[David Green]

Anyone who became an investor in Tesla stock within the first 2-1/2 years after IPO has seen his investment increase by a factor of about 10x to 15x.

You have a very strange definition of "lose", dude.

OK, and if those same investors sold their Tesla Sept 12th 2014, and moved the money to MSFT or BA, they would have gained another 3X 4X, making their total ROI 30X or 40X, if they held their Tesla position, their ROI has stayed 10X . Real investors know when to get in, and when to get out... Looks like a lot are getting out today... So much for the short burn of the century, closer to a margin call on Musk himself. Wow, already past Fridays's volume in the first hour of trading, remember what I told you that means? Institutional selling...

 

[Domenick]

Yes, Amazon has so many parts to their business, and have acquired competitors, and changed the way we buy things, Tesla on the other hand has not changed much or put anybody out of business... Their nearest competitors have had sales increases, and record profits, all the while Tesla loses money year after year. Tesla will lose big again in 2018, even if they cut all future spending, and squeeze the suppliers 3rd and 4th Qtr profit will not overcome Q1, and Q2 losses. Elon does not know how to run a manufacturing business, its very clear to anyone paying attention. The scariest part is that the Tesla & Musk brands are losing value, this is a slippery slope.

Tesla has not changed much?
I suppose it's a matter of perspective, but I think direct-to-consumer auto sales, first electric sportscar, first 200+ mile range electric vehicle, first premium electric sedan and SUV, and the first to feature over-the-air updates (I could go on) are pretty good indicators that they have actually changed a lot. They were ranked as the most innovative brand last year by Brandz.

I haven't crunched numbers to estimate how much profit they will show in the second half of the year, so I can't comment on that beyond saying "we'll see."

 

[David Green]

Tesla has not changed much?
I suppose it's a matter of perspective, but I think direct-to-consumer auto sales, first electric sportscar, first 200+ mile range electric vehicle, first premium electric sedan and SUV, and the first to feature over-the-air updates (I could go on) are pretty good indicators that they have actually changed a lot. They were ranked as the most innovative brand last year by Brandz.

I haven't crunched numbers to estimate how much profit they will show in the second half of the year, so I can't comment on that beyond saying "we'll see."

Domenick, totally perspective. Direct to sales is a nothing burger, and it does not seem to be saving cost as Tesla has industry leading S,G,& A per vehicle sold. First EV sportscar? another nothing burger in the car market, as it did not catch on and become mainstream. First 200 mile, that is a accomplishment, now been duplicated by most manufacturers. Software OTA, was something Tesla had dot do she they could deliver cars before finishing their software development. Software OTA is a great function, and almost every manufacturer will use it in the future for bug fixes just like the phone companies, etc... But Software OTA should not be used to fix software that was not tested properly, or software that was not complete at vehicle release.

On the earnings, I am excited to see Q2, Tesla may have a surprise, either way... But engineering a profit in Q3 and Q4 the way Tesla did in 2016 Q3 is not going to fool investors this time. Investors need to see a sustained path to long term profits, or they are looking to get out of Tesla. BTW, Model 3 production does not appear to be holding the 5K per week level, my sources say around 10K so far in July, which is 33%+ below guidance. And supercharger deployment has slowed to a crawl... only 16 locations under construction in all of North America, and Asia is even worse. Electrify America only in the USA has 31 stations under construction as of today, and ramping.

 

[David Green]

Give them enough rope, the Q2 2018 report in 2-3 weeks should make interesting reading.

Having reported a 'tip' to the SEC, investigators may be on the way. So I found these at: https://www.sec.gov/oiea/investor-alerts-bulletins/ib_investigations.html

SEC investigations are generally conducted on a confidential basis to maximize their effectiveness and protect the privacy of those involved. Because SEC investigations are generally nonpublic, Enforcement will not confirm or deny the existence of an investigation unless the SEC brings charges against a person or entity involved. Enforcement also will not provide updates on the status of any pending SEC investigation.
. . .
Enforcement receives information about possible violations from many sources, including market surveillance activities, investor tips and complaints, whistleblower submissions, other divisions and offices of the SEC, self-regulatory organizations and other securities industry sources, and media reports. If Enforcement opens an investigation, it may request documents and interview witnesses on a voluntary basis. If authorized with a formal order of investigation, Enforcement can issue subpoenas requiring the production of documents and witness testimony. Enforcement develops the facts in an SEC investigation primarily through interviewing witnesses under oath and analyzing documents and data (e.g., emails, brokerage records, and trading data).
. . .​

Due to confidentiality, the SEC tip and investigation results may never be publicly shared. So far, the only open proceedings are the Tesla lawsuit against Martin Tripp. FYI, Stuart Meissner, a New York lawyer, may not be able to practice law in Nevada to defend Tripp against the Tesla lawsuit: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...lls-sec-of-alleged-wrongdoing-at-gigafactory/

Meissner, who is not licensed to practice law in Nevada, is only representing Tripp as part of his whistleblowing complaint. Meissner said he would not be "releasing the actual information" contained in the TCR for now.​

As of today, the GoFundMe entry for Tripp's lawyer is at $15k. But two can play that game. Nothing blocks Tesla from filing a 'tip' against the more prominent Tesla skeptics spreading FUD.

Bob Wilson

It seems Mr. Tripp is now represented... here we go, time to start the discovery... Popcorn making...

https://twitter.com/StuartMeissner/status/1021073263479480321

 

[Pushmi-Pullyu]

OK, and if those same investors sold their Tesla Sept 12th 2014, and moved the money to MSFT or BA, they would have gained another 3X 4X, making their total ROI 30X or 40X, if they held their Tesla position, their ROI has stayed 10X . Real investors know when to get in, and when to get out...

David, your entire attitude, your philosophy toward investments, betrays the short-term thinking which underlies your entire FUD campaign against Tesla here. I want to profusely thank Nix for a few among his many very informative comments to IEVs news articles, in which he explained that American businesses used to use far sounder, long-term business practices; investing in the future and ensuring the business remained sound. How every different than the "greed is good" philosophy which unfortunately has been the obsession of Wall Street since the 1980s! That's the philosophy of the corporate raider, the day trader... the short-term investor who's only concerned with his personal profits in the next quarter, and not the long-term financial health and soundness of any company he might be involved with. It's the insanely destructive and frankly stupid philosophy which has lead to so many American companies which were in business for decades or even centuries, suddenly becoming unstable and collapsing. It's what has lead to obscenely inflated executive salaries and perks, and "golden parachutes"; it has lead to paying bonuses to top executives even while they steer their company into financial disaster!

Elon Musk took a lot of flak for his rudeness to some investors during the last quarterly conference call with investors, but he was absolutely on target when he said:

Really, the problem is like people get too focused on like what's happening in the space of a few weeks or a few months. This is -- maximum of investing should not be focused on short-term things. You should be focused on long-term things. We have no interest in satisfying the desires of day traders, like we couldn't care less. Please sell our stock and don't buy it.
​

One of the reasons that there is so much negative attitude from Wall Street towards Tesla (despite Wall Street's heavy investing in Tesla!) is that Tesla refuses to pay dividends to its stockholders. Tesla isn't letting them feed at the trough, as investors have come to feel is their "right"!

No wonder that short-term investors like you, David, are so obsessed with attacking Tesla. It's a throwback to an earlier time when companies were more conservative, and didn't cater to short-term investors. Tesla is undermining your entire approach to earning money. It's a refutation of the principle of short-term investing and "greed is good". That is why you keep repeating your Big Lie that Tesla investing money is Tesla "losing" money!

Yes, Amazon has so many parts to their business, and have acquired competitors, and changed the way we buy things, Tesla on the other hand has not changed much or put anybody out of business...

That's another Big Lie from anti-Tesla disinformation-mongers like you. Short-term investors kept making pretty much exactly -- and I do mean exactly -- the same sort of remarks about Amazon "losing" money, when of course they were investing it in growth -- until about 2.5 or 3 years ago, when Amazon had grown to the size it had targeted, and started showing a consistent quarterly profit.

Short-term investors like you really, really wish everyone would forget what y'all were saying about Amazon just three short years ago!

But hey, David, do keep trying with your ridiculous Tesla hater and short-term investor arguments. Who knows? Maybe someday you'll actually find a winning argument! So far, you're... what? Zero for the 15 or 17 or so threads you've started for the purpose of attacking Tesla? (Well, I suppose I ought to give you a point for the "Is Elon a bully?" thread, in which -- GASP! -- you actually stuck to the facts for once! Well, no doubt that's an aberration... you certainly haven't showed such constraint again!)

David Green FTW!