Frustration with Service Center after recall update

[Konasu]

Clamps, I understand your frustration. I just spent 90 minutes on the line with the Service Center. They advised me to talk to the dealer while the dealer advised me to talk to the Service Center. I called them in hopes that I would be able to speak to someone with technical knowledge of electrical vehicles and, in particular, my Kona and the service campaign 960 and recall 196.
In answer to your question about safety of parking in the garage, I think we can assume that your risk of a battery fire is much less after the 196 recall service than it was before. However, since the 196 recall states, in part, "Hyundai is continuing to actively investigate this condition for identification of a specific root cause," that 196 is not the complete solution and thus it is not 100% safe. That said, I park my car in the garage.

 

[R P]

R P, you seem like a decent fellow as I've gotten to know you on this forum but I think you are really missing the point. I'm frustrated by the lack of accountability on Hyundai and their representatives. I'm not in a quandary about my risk determination.

For the record, I am parking my car in my garage but I've only felt comfortable charging it to 80% which is what I would do normally anyway unless road tripping. Having said that, when I do charge I have the car outside the garage and extend the cord from the back wall to the car as opposed to my previous electric car which I charged inside the garage.

Like I said in my previous post, it has much to do with the US legal system (tort laws). How much extra do you want to pay for your car so that Hyundai can carry adequate funds and more insurance to provide more guarantees on what they say? I am sure their legal costs are pretty high as it is (as with all manufacturers).

As far as accountability, not sure we know enough to say they are hiding something, or unwilling to take responsibility for their products. They are honouring their warranties, and where they might fail on time or otherwise, you do have have other remedies. This does not seem like an easy problem to solve, if the fire burns up the evidence before it can be properly analyzed. With this latest BMS it seems they are not only trying to mitigate the risk of a fire but also may catch some defective batteries that can be examined before they are burned up.

As for Hyundai overall engineering/design and quality control, I do have some concerns about that. I have had both my reduction drive and motor replaced, and no assurances that is a permanent fix yet. And now we have possible battery defects. But it is still early. I have a few more years to decide whether this car is a long term keeper or get something else. It is my first Hyundai, but not ready to say yet that it will be my last.

 

[R P]

I think in general customer service has gone downhill this year, with all businesses. I blame covid for that, as it seems to have made everyone more grumpy, esp of late. In past years, I would often get customer surveys from a dealer after a service, and sometimes even a follow-up call. That was my opportunity to let them know how I felt about the experience. But haven't seen one of those for a long time... I think businesses are so squeezed these days, follow-up and surveys are just not their priority these days.

So I think we all need to suck it up a bit, and try to be a little more patient and understanding with each other. This covid will end, and eventually we will get back to normal. And then we can all Be Happy.

 

[greinstein]

I had my recall service done last week at Norm Reeves Hyundai. Took about 1 1/2 hour. On the way out I asked my service rep about charging levels. He and another rep in the office both said it is best to keep the car fully charged. I asked about reading that 80% is best, but both said no, the car is designed for 100%. This seems weird.

 

[Wildeyed]

I had my recall service done last week at Norm Reeves Hyundai. Took about 1 1/2 hour. On the way out I asked my service rep about charging levels. He and another rep in the office both said it is best to keep the car fully charged. I asked about reading that 80% is best, but both said no, the car is designed for 100%. This seems weird.

If a thousand people believe a wrong thing it is still a wrong thing. It's not weird.

 

[apu]

I had my recall service done last week at Norm Reeves Hyundai. Took about 1 1/2 hour. On the way out I asked my service rep about charging levels. He and another rep in the office both said it is best to keep the car fully charged. I asked about reading that 80% is best, but both said no, the car is designed for 100%. This seems weird.

Although your mileage may vary, sadly I have no faith in what service advisors have to say about our cars. They typically have zero EV training from Hyundai. The most knowledgeable person in any Hyundai dealership is the EV certified service technician, pontification from anyone else is at best hearsay.

Of my very many service visits I ultimately got assigned to one of the most senior service advisors who always had a smarmy opinion about what the cause of my problem was until he was ultimately flummoxed with the repeated unresolved concerns and admitted with a fair degree degree of resignation that this was all new fangled technology and he knew nothing about EVs. I was kind of blown away because none of this technology is really new to Hyundai and the problem electronics are shared amongst its ICE and hybrid vehicles. The one and only EV technician at the dealership was very impressive with his knowledge. He was probably the only person I met there that had a better grasp of EVs than myself.

 

[electriceddy]

I had my recall service done last week at Norm Reeves Hyundai. Took about 1 1/2 hour. On the way out I asked my service rep about charging levels. He and another rep in the office both said it is best to keep the car fully charged. I asked about reading that 80% is best, but both said no, the car is designed for 100%. This seems weird.

Agreed, but only when charging (and storing) in their garage

 

[KiwiME]

They may have referenced, or referred to what they recalled seeing in the owner's manual, where in the few places SoC is mentioned it says to charge to 100%. You'd always take their advice with a grain of salt but at least they made the effort to answer the question, unlike Clamps' original post in this thread.
It's really only owners such as ourselves who make the effort to understand that battery life can be extended by following certain guidelines but for many owners 100% is actually the best answer, and the only answer that doesn't raise further questions.

 

[R P]

Yup, if it's in the manual, they can't go wrong with that advice...

 

[mikeselectricstuff]

The issue is not charging to 100% but leaving it at 100% for extended periods of time.

 

[Clamps]

As far as accountability, not sure we know enough to say they are hiding something, or unwilling to take responsibility for their products. They are honouring their warranties, and where they might fail on time or otherwise, you do have have other remedies.

I will not give them a pass on responsibility. Parking a car indoors is a fundamental part of ownership in most cases, I know I keep bringing this up but I'm not asking Hyundai something bizarre like will my car float if I drive into a lake.

This does not seem like an easy problem to solve, if the fire burns up the evidence before it can be properly analyzed.

You are right on with this one and this is not exclusively a Hyundai thing. As I searched the web on car battery fires they all come back to the evidence burning away during the blaze. I'm am so okay with Hyundai taking the time to figure out what the problem/s may be, just let me know what I can or cannot do safely with my car.

Although your mileage may vary, sadly I have no faith in what service advisors have to say about our cars.

Me too but for different reasons. A few years ago my wife owned a Hyundai Santa Fe and the last time I took the car in for service they flat out lied to me in the most obvious ways possible. Not only lying but wasting five hours of my day while I sat in the service center as they changed their story three times. I was so angry but it got worse. Hyundai Corporate sent out a survey about the service, I filled it out honestly careful not to exaggerate my frustration and to credit them when due. About a week goes by and the service rep called me at home and literally started yelling at me for the "crappy" review, threatening me telling me that I better not do that again. Of course I told him to never call me at home again and threaten me. As fate would have it we got rid of that Hyundai and swore I would never do business with them again. So when I decided the Kona was the car for me I chose a different dealership, one with a good rating (if you can trust such a thing) and closer to our home. While this new dealership hasn't been as brazen in their attitude I was not happy with their handling of my service, not the service itself per se.

 

[Ronny]

I will not give them a pass on responsibility. Parking a car indoors is a fundamental part of ownership in most cases, I know I keep bringing this up but I'm not asking Hyundai something bizarre like will my car float if I drive into a lake.



You are right on with this one and this is not exclusively a Hyundai thing. As I searched the web on car battery fires they all come back to the evidence burning away during the blaze. I'm am so okay with Hyundai taking the time to figure out what the problem/s may be, just let me know what I can or cannot do safely with my car.



Me too but for different reasons. A few years ago my wife owned a Hyundai Santa Fe and the last time I took the car in for service they flat out lied to me in the most obvious ways possible. Not only lying but wasting five hours of my day while I sat in the service center as they changed their story three times. I was so angry but it got worse. Hyundai Corporate sent out a survey about the service, I filled it out honestly careful not to exaggerate my frustration and to credit them when due. About a week goes by and the service rep called me at home and literally started yelling at me for the "crappy" review, threatening me telling me that I better not do that again. Of course I told him to never call me at home again and threaten me. As fate would have it we got rid of that Hyundai and swore I would never do business with them again. So when I decided the Kona was the car for me I chose a different dealership, one with a good rating (if you can trust such a thing) and closer to our home. While this new dealership hasn't been as brazen in their attitude I was not happy with their handling of my service, not the service itself per se.

Of the car manufacturers I have dealt with, so far Hyundai has been the worst!

 

[R P]

Of the car manufacturers I have dealt with, so far Hyundai has been the worst!

I am not sure it is fair to tar the whole brand because of your dealer experience. You can get good and bad dealers with any brand, incl the luxury cars. And even tech advisers at the same dealer will vary. Luckily I live in an area where I have many choices for the same brand, and I don't hesitate to go to another if I am not happy with my local one. But mostly I have had good experiences with my local dealers. If I do have an issue, I try to give them the benefit of the doubt and let them try make it right. Usually that works.

Case in point just recently; my other car (Subaru) was coming to the end of its 3 year warranty and I had a slight shudder under hard braking on a long downhill. The issue was actually my fault as on a trip last March I overheated my brakes coming down from the Eastern Sierras into Death Valley (steep, twisty, slow and long). I used too much actual braking instead of engine braking. Ever since then sometimes felt that shudder.

Anyway, I took the car in, explained the issue, and asked if they might fix it under warranty. They had the car for almost a full day, ended up replacing the rear rotors, skim turning the front ones, and reconditioning all the brake pads (taking off the glaze). All at no charge. They explained what they did, checked the run-outs on each wheel, rebalanced wheels, and lots of test drives until it was perfect.

I was pretty happy with that. But I am sure if I had gone in and complained about how crappy the brakes were on that car, I would not have got that treatment. And I didn't even buy the car at that dealer. Meanwhile on the Subaru forums, I have heard lots of complaints about dealers, just like here. So it really varies, that's for sure.

 

[Kona Bill]

I just had the 196 completed on 11/17. Thanks to this thread I knew what to ask when I dropped it off. I told the service mgr. I needed two questions answered:
1) can I park it in the garage when this is completed and 2) can I charge to 100%. The answer to both was YES. Not only that, but the questions and answers are on the paperwork.

Now it’s just wait and see.

 

[TheLight75]

My own personal opinion on charging is that it's not wise to always charge to 100% as it may cumulatively contribute to battery degradation. I limit my regular Kona charging to 90% with the occasional charge to 100% only as needed ahead of longer drives. After 31,000 miles, and no battery issues after the 960 & 196 updates, I'd say my charging strategy is working.

I wouldn't take the word of any Hyundai dealership staff on what's good for an EV as most of them really don't understand how EV's work. Most of us with EV's who regularly circulate the forums know far more about EV powertrains than dealership staff.

I'd be curious to know if the folks who've needed to have their batteries replaced after the 960/196 updates always AC charge their Kona's to 100%? I'm not convinced the battery issue is entirely due to faulty cells versus poor battery management (by the BMS).

 

[KiwiME]

But the context of the OP's question has nothing to do with what an owner chooses as a charging strategy for whatever reasons. The question is about whether the car meets the advertised specifications and is fit for purpose as a motor vehicle for consumer use. During the normal use of any motor vehicle there is a default expectation that it is safe to be parked in a garage fully fuelled or fully charged.

 

[GPM432]

R P, you seem like a decent fellow as I've gotten to know you on this forum but I think you are really missing the point. I'm frustrated by the lack of accountability on Hyundai and their representatives. I'm not in a quandary about my risk determination.

For the record, I am parking my car in my garage but I've only felt comfortable charging it to 80% which is what I would do normally anyway unless road tripping. Having said that, when I do charge I have the car outside the garage and extend the cord from the back wall to the car as opposed to my previous electric car which I charged inside the garage.

if I was the dealer I would of told you yes to both questions. They did the update so it should of fixed the problem it was no sweat off their backs to say yes.. maybe they had no confidence i Hyundai's recall. I'm waiting to have mine done in the spring.

 

[mikeselectricstuff]

My own personal opinion on charging is that it's not wise to always charge to 100% as it may cumulatively contribute to battery degradation. .

The issue is not charging to 100%, but leaving it at 100% for long periods of time. so only charge to 100% when you need the range for the next journey

 

[Ed Zwieback]

I took my Kona-EV (mfd. Oct-'19) into Norm Reeves, Cerritos CA, at 11:30 AM today. Got a call at 2:00 PM that the 196-work was done; no problems. It's home in the garage now. It's a low-mileage car and I only charge to 80%, so I don't know yet how it will take a 100% charge.

 

[Ed Zwieback]

The Hyundai Dashboard (web) shows a "Service Campaign Alert" for my Kona-EV. The "Vehicle Health" shows the same message. The "Open Campaigns" pages shows "no open". The "Closed campaigns" shows "Recall 196 done on 11/23/20.

I do have paperwork saying the recall work was performed.

But I am curious if there is any record of the "Recall 196 work being done" marked on the car? Like a sticker under the hood or a update number change on the dash screen somewhere ?