Even the hyper modified Tesla Model S Race Car overheats on the track

[David Green]

You see things funny:

He was running out of battery which was down to 16%, see lower left. There is no evidence of heat limiting the speed.

November will be here soon enough and we'll see how well they scamper around the track. Until then, drag races are close enough.

During WW-II, both sides used methanol injection to cool the intake air and generate 'War Emergency Power.' Given how well water removes heat, I'm wondering if some sort of water or alcohol mist generator might improve heat removal:


Almost looks like liquid nitrogen or dry-ice clouds . . . hummmm.

Bob Wilson

Bob, your comment of "There is no evidence of heat limiting the speed" just shows how little you know about Tesla's... Do you see the dashed line on the power meter? That is the overheat limit... And the little arrow at 100kw is the low battery power limit. 60 miles, and 60KWh used, 1kwh per mile... WOW...

 

[bwilson4web]

Bob, your comment of "There is no evidence of heat limiting the speed" just shows how little you know about Tesla's...

I also listened to the audio. Regardless, I'll use my 'lying eyes and ears.'

. . . Do you see the dashed line on the power meter? That is the overheat limit... And the little arrow at 100kw is the low battery power limit. 60 miles, and 60KWh used, 1kwh per mile... WOW...

That sounds about right: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=39841&id=39842&id=39843

I think he has a Tesla Model X 75D which is listed as "36 kWh/100 mi." Double the speed and the power needed increases by a factor of four to "144 kWh/100 mi". One kWh per mile is well within the expected consumption.

Bob Wilson

 

[David Green]

You see things funny:

He was running out of battery which was down to 16%, see lower left. There is no evidence of heat limiting the speed.

November will be here soon enough and we'll see how well they scamper around the track. Until then, drag races are close enough.

During WW-II, both sides used methanol injection to cool the intake air and generate 'War Emergency Power.' Given how well water removes heat, I'm wondering if some sort of water or alcohol mist generator might improve heat removal:


Almost looks like liquid nitrogen or dry-ice clouds . . . hummmm. Chill-down pre-race.

Bob Wilson

Bob, you often tend to speak of things you know nothing about... Water/Alcohol injection was used on warbirds to offset detonation at higher boost pressures. Water /Alcohol is also used on heavy lift helicopter turbines in hot weather to keep the TIT, and EGT at acceptable levels it also adds a tiny bit of power by better sealing the gap between the turbine blade tips and the cylinder. Water/Alcohol has also been used on some turbojet/turbofan engines also to control temperatures during hot weather at high power.

I actually know these things from experience, as I have tuned on Rolls Merlin, Rolls Griffon engines, and helicopter turbines... Not using your google-fu...

Chill the battery before the race, and you will get low power right from the start...

 

[David Green]

I also listened to the audio. Regardless, I'll use my 'lying eyes and ears.'

That sounds about right: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=39841&id=39842&id=39843

I think he has a Tesla Model X 75D which is listed as "36 kWh/100 mi." Double the speed and the power needed increases by a factor of four to "144 kWh/100 mi". One kWh per mile is well within the expected consumption.

Bob Wilson

Bjorn has a Model X P90DL Founders Edition Man you really do talk about things you know nothing about...

 

[bwilson4web]

This thing where you keep ignoring the truth and posting the same FUD over and over... not working for you, dude.

@Pushmi-Pullyu, I think you're being too kind to @David Green:

Bob, you often tend to speak of things you know nothing about...

A dirty job, someone has to bring facts and data to our musings. <grins> Still, I appreciate the Model X 90D correction.

The EPA shows it as "37 kWh/100 mi" which brings the expected power consumption to "148 kWh/100 mi." Yet when I do the conversion of "581 Wh/km" for the past 50 km," I get "929.7 Wh/mi." If anything, this along with the cool temperatures suggests he is getting better than expected performance.

Regardless, I am looking forward to October and some reality training.

Would you reconsidered doing some benchmarks? If nothing else, replicate Bjorn's high-speed test if you can get over to Montana or a suitably open road nearby. Setup a digital video camera and make a YouTube. Actually, I would prefer to see kWh/mi at 30, 50, and 75 mph, bi-directional with temperature. Three points are often all it takes to map the curve. If not, no problem. I'll ask the Jaguar forum.

Bob Wilson

 

[Domenick]

This post this morning had a bit more info about the overheating episode. Seems like things may not be as bad as they did at first, but it still seems like this isn't the best base vehicle for the series, aside from the fact that there hasn't been others previously available, so they went with the Model S. I understand they will have other marques involved in the future, which should be awesome.

In the meantime, we'll have to wait and see if they can offer a compelling competition at a slightly lower power level. I'm withholding judgment until I see at least one race. I didn't think the Formula E series would be very compelling when it started but it's had far more success than I could have imagined.

 

[David Green]

@Pushmi-Pullyu, I think you're being too kind to @David Green:

A dirty job, someone has to bring facts and data to our musings. <grins> Still, I appreciate the Model X 90D correction.

The EPA shows it as "37 kWh/100 mi" which brings the expected power consumption to "148 kWh/100 mi." Yet when I do the conversion of "581 Wh/km" for the past 50 km," I get "929.7 Wh/mi." If anything, this along with the cool temperatures suggests he is getting better than expected performance.

Regardless, I am looking forward to October and some reality training.

Would you reconsidered doing some benchmarks? If nothing else, replicate Bjorn's high-speed test if you can get over to Montana or a suitably open road nearby. Setup a digital video camera and make a YouTube. Actually, I would prefer to see kWh/mi at 30, 50, and 75 mph, bi-directional with temperature. Three points are often all it takes to map the curve. If not, no problem. I'll ask the Jaguar forum.

Bob Wilson

Bob, I do not care about the consumption, or the heating in a high speed run. There will be other people that have time and energy to do those kinds of things, and the Jaguar forum is the place to go to post those kinds of things and verify the capabilities. Until then, its just you posting more things you know nothing about. Here is another overheating Tesla video for you... This one made it almost 50 seconds before overheating, and by the end of 1 lap was throwing error messages, and needed service... $136K "Performance"car that cannot even finish 1 lap under full power, and they even talk about steps that were taken to make the lap better, including running it in cooler AM weather. Interesting that they nearly lost the brakes in the first turn... Scary!

 

[bwilson4web]

Source: ibid

By the time the NASCAR bend came up, the brake pedal returned slightly, but by the exit of Snake, about 40 seconds into the lap, the 5010-pound P85D entered a reduced power mode (roughly half of the max). Up to that point, it was on pace with the Dodge Charger SRT Hellcat’s 3:03.5 lap but ended up with a 3:17.4, matching the heaviest vehicle we’ve ever driven here, the 5317-pound 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8.​

Do you realize that every time you mention Tesla, you are making another opportunity to bring out the facts and data?

I once thought you were an advocate for the I-Pace but now I wonder.

Regardless, I had a nice e-mail exchange with Craig Cole "2019 Jaguar I-Pace Review Pretty F***ing Awesome" who confirmed the I-Pace we've seen demoed was ". . . assembled by supplier company Magna Steyr in Graz, Austria." We've seen pre-production cars used in press day, EPA, and NHTSA testing and sometimes there is a gap between them and the production vehicles. For example, the Hyundai Ioniq EPA metrics are about 10% higher than we find in the Fuelly, user reports.

Bob Wilson

 

[David Green]

Source: ibid

By the time the NASCAR bend came up, the brake pedal returned slightly, but by the exit of Snake, about 40 seconds into the lap, the 5010-pound P85D entered a reduced power mode (roughly half of the max). Up to that point, it was on pace with the Dodge Charger SRT Hellcat’s 3:03.5 lap but ended up with a 3:17.4, matching the heaviest vehicle we’ve ever driven here, the 5317-pound 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8.​

Do you realize that every time you mention Tesla, you are making another opportunity to bring out the facts and data?

I once thought you were an advocate for the I-Pace but now I wonder.

Regardless, I had a nice e-mail exchange with Craig Cole "2019 Jaguar I-Pace Review Pretty F***ing Awesome" who confirmed the I-Pace we've seen demoed was ". . . assembled by supplier company Magna Steyr in Graz, Austria." We've seen pre-production cars used in press day, EPA, and NHTSA testing and sometimes there is a gap between them and the production vehicles. For example, the Hyundai Ioniq EPA metrics are about 10% higher than we find in the Fuelly, user reports.

Bob Wilson

Bob, I have a hard time understanding your talking points, the bottom line is every verified test I have seen of a Tesla S or X on a road course driven at race speeds overheated, and even Model 3's burned up the brakes in a few laps. On the I-pace, every review or video I have seen shows the car running well on the track, and no sign of overheating anywhere... Do you have any facts or data to dispute any of that?

Do you want to go back to your talking point about water/alcohol injection, another topic you had no real information on as you called it "methanol injection" which is technically incorrect. I wonder if you have ever seen water/alcohol injection used?

Jaguar told the press folks in Portugal that they were testing factory validation prototypes which had production parts and build process, and pre production software. As for you spinning that Jaguar is committing fraud with EPA and NHTSA testing? Thats reaching, and something there is NO supporting evidence of. I do not know who Craig Cole is, but he seemed to have lots of nice things to say about the I-Pace, and has never driven a Tesla.

All I-Paces are going to be assembled by Magna-Steyer in Graz, as is every Mercedes Benz G-Wagon ever made, and about half of the current BMW 5 series sedans. Oh, and Toyota/BMW are launching a new sports car together that will also be assembled in Graz, by Magna. Magna also just signed a huge contract with BAIC and is taking over a couple of their factories in China to design and build premium BEV's. Magna is also one of the largest parts makers in the world, including suspension parts for Tesla S and X.

 

[bwilson4web]

If @David Green were a true fan of the I-Pace, he might bring facts and data about it instead of bringing in selective claims about Teslas. Statements that invite review to find what was omitted. The old saying, “He doth protest too much,” comes to mind.

The irony is I have no interest in getting either car. We have two plug-in hybrids and until there is a SuperCharger at Fort Smith AR, no non-Tesla, BEV has any serious appeal.

By all means, play your game.

Bob Wilson

 

[David Green]

If @David Green were a true fan of the I-Pace, he might bring facts and data about it instead of bringing in selective claims about Teslas. Statements that invite review to find what was omitted. The old saying, “He doth protest too much,” comes to mind.

The irony is I have no interest in getting either car. We have two plug-in hybrids and until there is a SuperCharger at Fort Smith AR, no non-Tesla, BEV has any serious appeal.

By all means, play your game.

Bob Wilson

Bob, maybe you have forgotten how this post started, let me refresh your memory... I posted that a race prepped Model S overheated while track testing, at moderate speeds (it was not being pushed to the limit) I posted the official story link and video so others could see and form their own opinion of why it overheated. I then stated the I-Pace was designed and engineered to be able to track without overheating, and again provided a video that showed I-Pace running on the track with no issues (there are dozens of similar videos all over youtube).


You then posted a rebuttal, which is fine, but then you attached a video of Bjorn Nylands Model X overheating on a high speed run at 200km/h, which just happens to be near the top speed of the I-Pace, to which I replied that Bjrorn's car overheated in the video you posted... At that point I also posted Jaguars own I-Pace video showing their test program and what their goals were.


At this point you could go hide, since you had accidentally proved my point... But no, you came back for more, and claimed Bjorn's car did not overheat, and even posted a screenshot of Bjorn's dash with reduced power indicated (which you did not realize).


Have you ever noticed if I post incorrect information I always acknowledge it and apologize, as nobody is correct all the time! Instead you start going on about efficiency... which was not the subject of the post at all. Its Ok to say you were wrong, Bob... it happens... Now you want to throw a fit, take your toys and go home? haha! I wish you would have done that before you waste your energy attacking my post with incorrect data and misinformation.


On efficiency... I do not care to split hairs, and get down to the tiny details. I just like the I-Pace, I do not care if it uses twice the electricity of the Model X (which it certainly doesn't), I would still buy it, and so will others. This is just another in your mission to attack I-Pace, like when you have hit my posts claiming Trump Tariffs which are not even an issue currently. Then you went to the Jaguar Forum to post your efficiency chart... Why? If you have no interest, why bother? You obviously have some mission you are on?

 

[bwilson4web]

I posted that a race prepped Model S overheated while track testing, at moderate speeds

You may have forgotten this:

The spokesperson also said the technical team confirmed that the car will be able to run the race distances, but at a more manageable pace—around 470 HP will be what the cars can maintain throughout the race, with the full 778 HP available for things like overtaking. The spokesperson said each driver will have “full control” over when they decide to use the car’s full power, and that it’ll be “part of the strategy and part of the show.”

We’ll get to see how that show plays out soon enough, since the first 10-race season for the international series is scheduled to start in November.​

The reason you are so transparent is a pattern of lying by omission. Over and over again you cite a source expecting no one to actually read what you cited. Understand I am OK with such sillyness but we've got your your pattern. So let me suggest a way to eventually build up some credibility.

1. Advocate for the I-Pace with facts and data.
2. Do not make any mention of a car you don't own, much less a Tesla.

Personally, I don't think you have the self-discipline to 'grow up.' I am confident you'll continue this transparent pattern:


Bob Wilson

 

[David Green]

You may have forgotten this:

The spokesperson also said the technical team confirmed that the car will be able to run the race distances, but at a more manageable pace—around 470 HP will be what the cars can maintain throughout the race, with the full 778 HP available for things like overtaking. The spokesperson said each driver will have “full control” over when they decide to use the car’s full power, and that it’ll be “part of the strategy and part of the show.”

We’ll get to see how that show plays out soon enough, since the first 10-race season for the international series is scheduled to start in November.​

The reason you are so transparent is a pattern of lying by omission. Over and over again you cite a source expecting no one to actually read what you cited. Understand I am OK with such sillyness but we've got your your pattern. So let me suggest a way to eventually build up some credibility.

1. Advocate for the I-Pace with facts and data.
2. Do not make any mention of a car you don't own, much less a Tesla.

Personally, I don't think you have the self-discipline to 'grow up.' I am confident you'll continue this transparent pattern:


Bob Wilson

Bob, speaking of "grow up"? I see you could not reply to my previous questions, or admit you were wrong on numerous things you said in this string.


My original statement was The Model S that was race prepped overheated... Is that a fact or not? Also that the car went 1.5Laps which is the equivalent of 5 miles... True or not? I then posted a link to the story, with video... I did not state why it overheated, or what happened with regard to test conditions.


Then below I stated that the I-Pace is engineered so that it does not overheat on the track. and posted a video to show that. Can you please point out to me the lie?


1) I have advocated for I-Pace, by posting reviews and specs many times, and again in this string.
2) Have an interest in EV's and Tesla is the biggest company in the USA for producing EV's so I will continue to discuss Tesla as I see them.
3) If you do not like my posts, you do not have to read them, or reply. If you do choose to reply with misinformation I will point it out, as I hope you would for me.