EV mode is more expensive for me

J

JulianClarity

Active Member
I switched to the e-tou-a from tiered plan after I bought my clarity. At work, I am waiting for the company to install more new charge stations, so I can get my charging permit. Now I only charge at home, it costs me 19c off peak per kwh, it is about $3.2 for a full charge. The car is about 45 gas mpg for me, so if the gas is below $3.1 per gallon, I am going to spend more using electric mode. Actually I have a lot of balance on my Costco cash card refilled when chase freedom has 5x points, so it costs me a lot more on electricity. I am considering to install solar panels.
 
I wish more people would pay attention to this Julian. The combination of low gas prices and high electricity prices can indeed make gas cheaper. Fortunately for Clarity owners we have a choice.

For our home installing solar and buying the Clarity were a pair made in heaven. In fact the solar pay-back period would have been too long without the Clarity. Our electricity is $0.15/kWh 24/7 and we don't use enough for the solar system to pay back in less than about 12 years. With the Clarity we will have payback in 6 to 8 years. Of course the other bonus is we drive around with a solar powered car most of the time, only using gas for the occasional trip out of town. In combination we saved $2,500 in 2018 for car gas + home electricity compared to 2017. In 2017 we were driving a Prius hybrid so the gains in savings are quite good.
 
Julian, I am in a similar boat... High electric, cheap gas, no charging at work. The work charger policy is consultants like me cannot charge, employees only. So charging spots go unused or get used as noncharging electric car parking spots but that is a different discussion. Anyway, I will accelerate my solar plans as a result despite my nervousness about making such a big investment. I know it will should save me money in the long run but still it is a big undertaking.

So back to you, if you put a meter like a Kill-A-Watt meter you will see your real full charge uses about 14 KW not 17 KW. The reason for that is the Clarity, like all PHEVs and EVs, do not let you use the full capacity of the battery to help ensure long battery life. That makes a full charge cost $2.66.
 
It is nice being able to use either gasoline or electricity, for sure. My situation is about a wash regarding which is cheaper. Electricity runs .11 cents per KWh, gasoline is relatively cheap at $2.25 per gallon.
 
Mowcowbell said:
It is nice being able to use either gasoline or electricity, for sure. My situation is about a wash regarding which is cheaper. Electricity runs .11 cents per KWh, gasoline is relatively cheap at $2.25 per gallon.
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Totally agree - and this is why the Clarity is perfect for me. I can charge at work for free and my round trip commute is less then most days battery capacity, or I’m using gas for a few miles in the dead of winter. Over the weekends I can decide what to do and use EV around town or gas on the highway. I don’t think I would switch to a full EV until I can charge it up quickly. I thought a lot about this over the winter. If EV range is in the 200s then any trip is going to have range anxiety which I never have with the Clarity. I don’t want to take an hour break every 3 hours to fill up my car.

A coworker of mine has a Tesla and we got stuck in a traffic jam on a two lane highway that he couldn’t get off of. He ran out of juice and the Tesla service couldn’t get to him for hours because of the traffic. Yes - that might be rare but it’s not something I would want to deal with.
 
RickSE: I'm jealous... wish I could charge at work for free. I am on the list to use one of the 8 EV Charging stations, but will have to pay $145/year if my name is drawn for a spot.

Charging infrastructure in my area is almost non-existent. There is one one Tesla Supercharger station (useless to us Clarity owners), and a handful of Chargepoint stations, but all are near downtown which is 20 miles away from me.
 
Mowcowbell said:
RickSE: I'm jealous... wish I could charge at work for free. I am on the list to use one of the 8 EV Charging stations, but will have to pay $145/year if my name is drawn for a spot.

Charging infrastructure in my area is almost non-existent. There is one one Tesla Supercharger station (useless to us Clarity owners), and a handful of Chargepoint stations, but all are near downtown which is 20 miles away from me.
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I know I’m lucky, but probably not too unusual for people living near a big city. I’m in MA, which is a ZEV state and has a reasonably good charging infrastructure. Even so, I didn’t know I had access to free chargers until I started looking at the clarity. Someday those chargers are going to stop working or no longer be free, but until then it’s $70 per month in my pocket!
 
JulianClarity said:
I switched to the e-tou-a from tiered plan after I bought my clarity. At work, I am waiting for the company to install more new charge stations, so I can get my charging permit. Now I only charge at home, it costs me 19c off peak per kwh, it is about $3.2 for a full charge. The car is about 45 gas mpg for me, so if the gas is below $3.1 per gallon, I am going to spend more using electric mode. Actually I have a lot of balance on my Costco cash card refilled when chase freedom has 5x points, so it costs me a lot more on electricity. I am considering to install solar panels.
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Julian, just curious how you come up with your $3.20 per fill up figure? I am guessing you used the 19c kWh and the 17 kWh battery. The Clarity has a built in buffer for the battery. At the emptiest I have not been able to use much more than 14kWh to fill it (using ChargePoint's data). !4Kwh seems like a good number to go by. This would give you a cost (at off peak) of $2.66 for a full charge which is likely closer to your gas price. Hope this made sense and helps.
 
The EV mode is relatively more efficient at low speed driving so EV driving at these prices still makes sense around town. By using EV this way my EV range has been around 60 miles through the winter and I've seen it start to increase as things warm up. But I am cheap and don't use heat in EV because for me it makes no real difference anyway when only driving a few miles.
 
The Gadgeteer said:
Julian, I am in a similar boat... High electric, cheap gas, no charging at work. The work charger policy is consultants like me cannot charge, employees only. So charging spots go unused or get used as noncharging electric car parking spots but that is a different discussion. Anyway, I will accelerate my solar plans as a result despite my nervousness about making such a big investment. I know it will should save me money in the long run but still it is a big undertaking.

So back to you, if you put a meter like a Kill-A-Watt meter you will see your real full charge uses about 14 KW not 17 KW. The reason for that is the Clarity, like all PHEVs and EVs, do not let you use the full capacity of the battery to help ensure long battery life. That makes a full charge cost $2.66.
Click to expand...

Ohoh, thanks for reminding, I almost forgot this. So EV mode is still a little cheaper.
I will still keep my car fully charged everyday. In heavy traffic, electric mode is much more efficient, I need it for about 10 miles a day.
As I keep driving the car* the range becomes longer and longer. Yesterday when I filled my car I have probably 43+349 =392 miles, did not pay attenion. I drove much more than 90 miles afterwards, surprisingly it showed me 316 miles when I got home. I would say the combination of EV and hybrid mode is way better than EV only mode, if we drive properly. PG&E does not directly tell me how much the nee plan costs me and it is my first billing cycle, I was thinking the offpeak rate could be somewhere around 1x cents/kwh, the 19/20c off/on peak rate is really too expensive, not to mention the summer rate is even much higher.
I was very opposed to electric cars and solar power, why? Because when the government tells you they are clean, they meant they are clean to you. The decomposition of they battery and the recycling/manufacturing of the solar panel generates great polution to China, now China has stopped importing wastes from the States, it becomes other countries. Human beings are selfish, I compromise to my bills. EVs and solar panels save my money, I don't say they are clean energy.
 
Same situation for me in CT. Electricity is .20/kwh, and gas has crept up to around $2.50/gallon.

Has anyone measured the cost/efficiency of electricity generation in HV Charge mode?
 
Agreed that clean is relative. If you walk or bike more than you will need to eat more, which means more poop. That's waste :D And since most of us don't eat locally grown or raised food, extra transportation would be needed to bring all those extra food to the market. That too would increase pollution. :) When car first came out, people were saying cars would reduce pollution because there wouldn't be so much horse poop on the street. :p

Anyway, here in NJ, gas is around $2.60 and my electric is 18cent a kw. So it is cheaper for me to run ice then electron.
 
I am hoping that charging in the winter is less kwh than in summer: I was getting EV range of 28 miles, so I assumed part of that is reduced capacity of the battery (less than 14 kwh for a charge). I am expecting higher EV range in the summer, and part of that will be higher kwh for charging.

Is this thinking correct? Any data?
 
ClarityBill said:
I am hoping that charging in the winter is less kwh than in summer: I was getting EV range of 28 miles, so I assumed part of that is reduced capacity of the battery (less than 14 kwh for a charge). I am expecting higher EV range in the summer, and part of that will be higher kwh for charging.

Is this thinking correct? Any data?
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Wow I think the worst I got all winter here in Connecticut was 52 mile EV range.
 
Mowcowbell said:
It is nice being able to use either gasoline or electricity, for sure. My situation is about a wash regarding which is cheaper. Electricity runs .11 cents per KWh, gasoline is relatively cheap at $2.25 per gallon.
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A full charge for you is: .11*14=$1.54

For simplicity let's take advantage of the fact the full charge electric range is pretty close to the same range you would get from a gallon of gas. Therefore electricity is your cheaper fuel.
 
RickSE said:
52 miles of EV in Connecticut during the winter? I’m one state north of you and averaged 35 on a full charge.
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Yes that was the worst, last one was 62 miles. I never use EV on the highway, probably also helps that I live in a relatively small town with light traffic at least until the summer beach traffic season starts. Lots of 2 mile trips to school, after school lessons, food stores etc.
 
Mark W said:
Same situation for me in CT. Electricity is .20/kwh, and gas has crept up to around $2.50/gallon.

Has anyone measured the cost/efficiency of electricity generation in HV Charge mode?
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My experience with HV Charge is it drops my HV mpg from about 42 mpg to low 30s mpg. I feel that is the least efficient way to power a Clarity.
 
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