EV Mileage on Clarity 120V versus 240V

[KentuckyKen]

@leop, the HV Battery Charge Level Gauge on the left of the DDI you referred to on p123 gives an absolute reading (battery SOC), while the Battery Range by High Voltage Battery on the left of the Energy Flow Screen on the center Audio/Information Screen (p215) gives a relative reading based on how far the algorithm computes you can go on whatever SOC is present and is based on previous trips. It therefore does not have a direct one to one correspondence with the SOC of the battery even though both go up and down together.
For example, this summer when I would get 60+ miles on a 100% charge, it would read 50 (it’s max) until it computed I had less than 50 miles remaining. And so if cold weather and/or heater usage or speed or hills or whatever conspires to reduce your previous trips to less than 47 miles, then you will see it start out at a lower range even though you have a full charge. It attempts to tell you how far you can drive on the battery alone but by necessity it’s predicting off past experience. So it can be thrown off by changes in environmental and driving conditions ,and/or driving styles to name a few. It does however tend to correct itself on every trip so that no matter how optimistically or pessimistically it predicts, it will almost always be at 0 range when you get to 2 bars of SOC. And then the ICE comes on.

It’s kind of like the gas gauge showing how much gas is in the tank but your range on that amount of gas will vary in city vs highway driving and 80 vs 55 mph. As in having a full tank doesn’t mean you’ll have the full range if you drive over 80.
PS: the Battery Gauge may not be completely linear.
My 2 cents.

 

[ukon]

Did anyone notice the correct correlation between bars from car with HondaLink percentages?

Is 2 bars on the guage 20% or 10%? It is not always consistent for me. Sometimes even 5%. Also 40-45% correlates to half the bars. Makes no sense which one is correctly representing the virtual battery range

 

[Mariner91]

Well that probably explains it. So people in cold weather never see this graph at 100?

Nothing so absolute, I think. Mileage estimate is based on a lot of things, not just the weather (personally, I think weather itself is one of the least of them and what the driver does because of the weather is more)

For example, temp outside at 90 degrees and you got your AC on LOW and full blast will likely use up more battery power (which in turn will lower your next full charge estimate) than having 20 degrees outside and you have your AC off and fan at a minimum.

 

[Geor99]

To clarify, on this display (see attachment the bars are estimated ev miles. The bars are all filled in when the estimated mileage is 50 miles or more.
This does not tell us how much charge is in the battery .

The battery can be completely charged, the estimated ev mileage could be 44 miles; and there could be empty bars.

Conversely, the battery could be 90% charged and all of the bars could be filled if it estimates 50 or more ev miles with only a 90% fill on the battery.

Correct???

 

[Mariner91]

To clarify, on this display (see attachment the bars are estimated ev miles. The bars are all filled in when the estimated mileage is 50 miles or more.
This does not tell us how much charge is in the battery .

The battery can be completely charged, the estimated ev mileage could be 44 miles; and there could be empty bars.

Conversely, the battery could be 90% charged and all of the bars could be filled if it estimates 50 or more ev miles with only a 90% fill on the battery.

Correct???

Yes. Using the same image, it's possible your battery is already fully charged. But due to your driving/energy usage, the average estimate is 27 miles On That Fully Charged Battery

 

[Geor99]

If my understanding above is correct , what a weird way to convey I formation.

Why have empty bars on a fully charged battery? Why not link the state of charge to the mileage estimate?

If a full charge gives an estimate of 44 miles, why not have the bars filled at 44 miles???

It's like having a gas tank gauge up to 20 gallons on a 17 gallon tank

 

[ukon]

If my understanding above is correct , what a weird way to convey I formation.

Why have empty bars on a fully charged battery? Why not link the state of charge to the mileage estimate?

If a full charge gives an estimate of 44 miles, why not have the bars filled at 44 miles???

It's like having a gas tank gauge up to 20 gallons on a 17 gallon tank

I agree. There is no consistency and this makes it much hard to understand the user interface. I do agree that same things can be interpreted either way depending on the user expectation.

BTW, you do not seem to have HV range fix installed? 400+ range

 

[KentuckyKen]

I’m evidently not understanding something here.
Here’s what I see.
You always have all the bars on the battery gauge on the DDI when the battery is fully charged. It goes down to 2 bars when all the allowable power has been used and then auto enters HV even if the HV indicator does not come on.
The gauge in the left of the acenter A/I screen is a prediction of range (not battery charge) and as such it may or may not read full (48 or 50 miles, I forget which) when the battery is full.

I don’t get what the inconsistency or weird way to display info is.
What am I missing?

 

[Mariner91]

I don’t get what the inconsistency or weird way to display info is.
What am I missing?

Well, because the Mileage estimate is both inconsistent, and weird?

Inconsistent = because of the fairly low capacity of our battery, it's very easy to see the change from one drive to another just because of one or two items that's changed between two drives. Maybe you were on the highway a little longer, or had the fan a little stronger; what ever, but both Will mean your next full charge will be different from the previous one. Now, imagine if our capacity is 500 miles instead of 40-45; those small changes mentioned will likely not change your overall estimate once you charged back from 90-100% (on a 500 mile charge) vs 0-100% (on a 45 mile charge) Hence, Inconsistent.

Weird = again, because of the fairly low capacity of our battery, and impact of other things other than miles is very easy to notice. Going 10 miles on street driving with all it entails is different from going 10 miles on highway speed. Your battery's estimate is not solely based on the miles you're driving but How you're driving them. But the gauge, is only talking about miles.

 

[KentuckyKen]

Well, because the Mileage estimate is both inconsistent, and weird?

Inconsistent = because of the fairly low capacity of our battery, it's very easy to see the change from one drive to another just because of one or two items that's changed between two drives. Maybe you were on the highway a little longer, or had the fan a little stronger; what ever, but both Will mean your next full charge will be different from the previous one. Now, imagine if our capacity is 500 miles instead of 40-45; those small changes mentioned will likely not change your overall estimate once you charged back from 90-100% (on a 500 mile charge) vs 0-100% (on a 45 mile charge) Hence, Inconsistent.

Weird = again, because of the fairly low capacity of our battery, and impact of other things other than miles is very easy to notice. Going 10 miles on street driving with all it entails is different from going 10 miles on highway speed. Your battery's estimate is not solely based on the miles you're driving but How you're driving them. But the gauge, is only talking about miles.

Thanks. I see where you’re coming from now. I guess I hadn’t noticed it because I’m the only driver and almost all my trips are identical.

 

[MNSteve]

I understand the prediction of the range on the main console. It has a number, after all, as well as the bars.

My issue is the inconsistency between that and the battery gauge on the DDI. Yes, I agree that you always have all the bars when the battery is fully charged. But it doesn't seem to go down at anywhere near the same rate as the reported EV range. I'm getting an EV range now of about 30 miles. When I have driven 15 of those, I would expect the battery gauge to have declined to about half. I see much less than that. I understand that the correlation will not be exact because one is taking into consideration my previous driving history while the other is supposed to be a measure of absolute charge level, but for me they are wildly different.

 

[leop]

My understanding and observation is that the center, looks like the battery display for the vehicle energy screen on the center display is representative of the true state of charge of the high voltage battery. My observation is that this "battery" representation matches the electric energy gauge on the driver's instrument panel. The circular display to the left on central display's vehicle energy page is a range gauge where the maximum range is 50 mile (non-metric units). Presently, our Clarity has 26 miles left of EV range and the SOC is 69% (by HondaLink). The 69% value is the same as the graphical displays on the instrument panel gauge and the vehicle energy central battery picture on the center display.

LeoP

 

[KentuckyKen]

I understand the prediction of the range on the main console. It has a number, after all, as well as the bars.

My issue is the inconsistency between that and the battery gauge on the DDI. Yes, I agree that you always have all the bars when the battery is fully charged. But it doesn't seem to go down at anywhere near the same rate as the reported EV range. I'm getting an EV range now of about 30 miles. When I have driven 15 of those, I would expect the battery gauge to have declined to about half. I see much less than that. I understand that the correlation will not be exact because one is taking into consideration my previous driving history while the other is supposed to be a measure of absolute charge level, but for me they are wildly different.

I’ve seen that too. I’m beginning to believe that the battery guage is not completely linear.
It’s sad that it appears Honda’s EE, computer, and design staff were not in the same room when this was implemented the way it was.

 

[Geor99]

I agree. There is no consistency and this makes it much hard to understand the user interface. I do agree that same things can be interpreted either way depending on the user expectation.

BTW, you do not seem to have HV range fix installed? 400+ range

That's an image from google

 

[Geor99]

It's weird because for 30 years every time I filled my gas tank, I was rewarded with seeing the gas gauge filled to the max.

Now, I fully charge my battery and it's only 90% filled on the graph. It makes me feel like I'm not completely charged up.

Yes, it's dumb; but it's human nature- at least for me.

And yes, it's a ridiculous 1st world problem

 

[Mariner91]

I understand the prediction of the range on the main console. It has a number, after all, as well as the bars.

My issue is the inconsistency between that and the battery gauge on the DDI. Yes, I agree that you always have all the bars when the battery is fully charged. But it doesn't seem to go down at anywhere near the same rate as the reported EV range. I'm getting an EV range now of about 30 miles. When I have driven 15 of those, I would expect the battery gauge to have declined to about half. I see much less than that. I understand that the correlation will not be exact because one is taking into consideration my previous driving history while the other is supposed to be a measure of absolute charge level, but for me they are wildly different.

This is some what opposite of the previous issue, but essentially (IMO) the same thing. At the end of the day, you're comparing apples and oranges. One is the energy charge of your battery, and the other is an estimate on how many miles your battery can drag your car based on a calculated estimate per your previous driving practice. What happens once you drive off will affect both regardless of what those estimates were. Again, the estimate (at full and once you start using it) will be based on not just the miles you've drive but how you've driven those miles; whether in highway speed or traffic, with AC on full blast or off, car seat warmer, and a number of other variables. Simply saying you drove 15 out of the "original" 30 doesn't necessarily mean you used up half your battery charge.

It's weird because for 30 years every time I filled my gas tank, I was rewarded with seeing the gas gauge filled to the max.

Now, I fully charge my battery and it's only 90% filled on the graph. It makes me feel like I'm not completely charged up.

Yes, it's dumb; but it's human nature- at least for me.

And yes, it's a ridiculous 1st world problem

Your clarity is also showing you a full charge (of energy). And I bet none of those full gas tanks ever showed you how many miles it'll get you

 

[MNSteve]

This is some what opposite of the previous issue, but essentially (IMO) the same thing. At the end of the day, you're comparing apples and oranges. One is the energy charge of your battery, and the other is an estimate on how many miles your battery can drag your car based on a calculated estimate per your previous driving practice. What happens once you drive off will affect both regardless of what those estimates were. Again, the estimate (at full and once you start using it) will be based on not just the miles you've drive but how you've driven those miles; whether in highway speed or traffic, with AC on full blast or off, car seat warmer, and a number of other variables. Simply saying you drove 15 out of the "original" 30 doesn't necessarily mean you used up half your battery charge.

I see that I am going to have to run an experiment to determine which is right, the estimate or the "gauge". I had assumed that the numerical data was more accurate than a gauge that was pretending to be analog, but maybe I have the reliability reversed. So I am going to run my estimate down to zero, at which point I expect I'll see just under half a "tank" of battery charge. If it stays in EV and the car moves without triggering the ICE, then the estimate was bogus. That would be a happy surprise since it would mean that the estimate was too low.

I believe that I have done this and that the numerical estimate was accurate, but it's easy enough to repeat the experiment.

 

[Geor99]

Fyi - here I am at full charge at work.

 

[Geor99]

This is some what opposite of the previous issue, but essentially (IMO) the same thing. At the end of the day, you're comparing apples and oranges. One is the energy charge of your battery, and the other is an estimate on how many miles your battery can drag your car based on a calculated estimate per your previous driving practice. What happens once you drive off will affect both regardless of what those estimates were. Again, the estimate (at full and once you start using it) will be based on not just the miles you've drive but how you've driven those miles; whether in highway speed or traffic, with AC on full blast or off, car seat warmer, and a number of other variables. Simply saying you drove 15 out of the "original" 30 doesn't necessarily mean you used up half your battery charge.



Your clarity is also showing you a full charge (of energy). And I bet none of those full gas tanks ever showed you how many miles it'll get you

You're right. Now that I understand the graph, I see that it's not part of a charging issue.

Have the "25" permanently etched into the graph is an obvious sign that you guys are correct.

If one constantly drives lead footed while always maxing the heat and seat warmers, 25 miles may be a full charge.

The graph would show the bars only half full, while having a fully charged battery.

I now get it, but I don't have to like it

I'm over it. Thanks for straightening me out and saving me a dealer trip, rental car, headaches, etc!!!!

 

[Geor99]

One last note, when I get home from work (35 miles,) I often have 15 or miles left on the estimate.

When arriving at work, I come close to having 0.

Now, I see it's not a charging difference; it's the elevation climb going to work and the downhill glide returning home.

My car keeps updating the estimate based on the last trip . It's always overestimating/underestimating based on the last trip. Going back and forth to work, it will always be way off.

No big deal; but thanks to everyone for explaining this behavior. I finally completely understand what's going on.

And once again, a gigantic thanks for saving me a dealer trip!!!!