EV charging subsidy

  • Thread starter Thread starter bwilson4web
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies Replies 54
  • Views Views 7K
SouthernDude said:
I am not an anarchist nor do I agree with democracy. It's just that government intervention in the economy is never efficient and always backfires. Advocating for more intervention is just putting fuel on the fire. It won't solve anything
Click to expand...
Well, not sure what your definition of intervention is. You could consider taxes (or not), and fees/subsidies as intervention. That determines outcomes. Our lives are driven by that. What I am saying is change the rules about incentives and penalties to get better outcomes. You don't need more govt for that. I would argue that you could dramatically reduce the size of govt if you do it right.

I could have used the term policies, but that is too broad, and could be misinterpreted as to intention.
 
Last edited:
Calliope said:
Yes, Elon Musk was the reason I didn't want a Tesla, but in the end the specifics of the car won me over as friends told me I could ignore him and he's not the first company creator/owner who was of, shall we say, questionable ethics. I was seriously considering the Mach-e, but the delayed release (here in Canada) and the lack of a heat pump convinced me to drop them out of the running. Because of my changed driving patterns (since I bought my Leaf), I desperately need longer range and good thermal management of hot and cold weather.
Click to expand...

Lack of real competitors was/is a thing so I understand your purchase. But that will quickly change in the next year or so.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
TRSmith said:
that doesn't use open standards.
Click to expand...
By "open standards", do you mean the ones that were delayed until after Tesla needed to be selling cars? Of do you mean the ones that were originally limited to 3.3 kW Level 2 charging and 50 kW DC Fast charging? What about the one that prohibits the use of adapters?
Or do you mean the one that was developed to be elegantly simple, cheap, and open to anyone willing to help support its deployment?
I'll skip the huge one that was developed to be seldom used by short range EVs in Tokyo, simply as a backup in case someone got too far from home and needed a little top off to get back home.
In case you're not familiar with the heritage of charging standards: the first one I refer to was CCS. It was not modified for faster charging until after Tesla had rolled out its Supercharger network at 150 kW and VW (Porsche & Audi) realized they had to compete as Tesla was eating their lunch.
The 2nd, of course, is Tesla,
The 3rd is CHAdeMO (initially known as the TEPCO standard for Tokyo Electric Power Company)
 
Recoil45 said:
Your points are mostly valid, but if you are living above the world average (extremely likely if you are in the US) and enjoying life, you have cheap energy and a US oil company to thank. I feel blessed to live the awesome life I have lived. And given the choice I would do it all over again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Yes, I feel it is the duty of those living above the world average to do their part for the planet.
 
Calliope said:
Yes, Elon Musk was the reason I didn't want a Tesla, but in the end the specifics of the car won me over as friends told me I could ignore him and he's not the first company creator/owner who was of, shall we say, questionable ethics. I was seriously considering the Mach-e, but the delayed release (here in Canada) and the lack of a heat pump convinced me to drop them out of the running. Because of my changed driving patterns (since I bought my Leaf), I desperately need longer range and good thermal management of hot and cold weather.
Click to expand...
Yes, I don't particularly like Musk, the man, however, he's putting his money into and doing what I think is necessary, unlike pretty much everyone else in the industry except those who are reacting to Tesla is doing.
For the record, it was Tesla's 1st CEO whom I jumped in behind. Musk was important since he had the bank account but Eberhard and Tarpenning are the ones I committed to initially. I stayed behind Musk when he purged the others, but only because I believed he'd stay the course. He has.
 
TRSmith said:
I don't hate Tesla. Tesla should be free to do what it wants within the law. I just don't think it should get public help to do that if it's in a closed system that doesn't use open standards.
Click to expand...

Don't worry, Tesla receives no subsidy for its Supercharger network. Quite the opposite, in fact They pay.

Also see my comments in a previous post about how CCS was just another obstructionist effort by the legacy ICE companies and how Tesla did open up their standard with the only requirement that those who use it help pay for its rollout.

TRSmith said:
Tesla has gotten significant government help. A big DOE loan. Tax credits for hundreds of thousands of cars -- not just federal, but state too. Tax credits for charging infrastructure. Solar tax credits. State and local incentives for its manufacturing facilities. Not to mention fuel efficiency rules, which allow Tesla to build up credits that it sells to other automakers -- hundreds of millions of dollars annually.
Click to expand...

These are budget dust to Tesla. Sure, they help but they're a small part of the money it takes to make an affordable car.

The fact that Tesla is buying credits from other automakers shows how ineffective that policy (its actually a Zero Emission Vehicle regulation, not a fuel economy one) has been. If the ZEV mandate were working, those other automakers would be making ZEVs and there would be nothing for Tesla to buy and nothing for Tesla haters to grouse about.
 
Recoil45 said:
But that will quickly change in the next year or so.
Click to expand...

Let's hope.

There are signs that Ford and VW may be coming out with a contender but they could still blow it like Nissan did with the pathetic Leaf and GM did by stifling the Bolt.
I think that Ford mandating that dealers have a demo MachE is a good start. Other than the poor punishment charging networks available, it looks like a pretty good car. I'm cautiously optimistic.
 
1) Existing Tesla owners paid more for the SuperCharger network that the freeloaders want to use.

2) It is unfair that non-Tesla, fast DC chargers have failed to license and add Tesla charging plugs.

3) No cross licensing of Tesla-to-CCS adapters.

4) Test drive videos show the CCS networks have reliably and integration problems.

Bob Wilson
 
takefive said:
Why wouldn't Tesla want free money from non-Tesla customers using their chargers?
Click to expand...
In general, they would.
The only reason it would be a bad idea is that ICE manufacturer's (GM's, in particular) early EVs maxed out at 50 KW charging rate and had short range. This would mean that they would occupy charging stations more often and for more time. That, of course, could be compensated for if they brought enough additional money but there was negative reception from the other manufacturers.
Tesla did solicit the ICE manufacturers to use the standard they created and join the network. Their stipulation for others to join their network was that they had to help pay for the buildout of more stations and make EVs with good range and fast charging. Sadly, this flew against the ICE OEM's goal of only making compliance EVs that would not pose any competition to their ICE vehicles.
The ICE manufactures, in response to Tesla's offer, and being full of hubris and naivety, chose to create and spread the story among the industry that "Tesla is in trouble trying to make a charging network and is begging for others to bail them out" and laugh at them. I had to regularly listen to these and other "Tesla is about to die" stories from my own CEO since a part of my company was a supplier to the automobile industry so he mixed with the OEMs regularly, and he knew I had one of the first Teslas. I just responded that we would have to see. At a later point, of course, he conceded that I was right and that he was surprised.
 
takefive said:
Why wouldn't Tesla want free money from non-Tesla customers using their chargers?
Click to expand...

Because they are already hammered by poor customer service complaints. The one thing they have going for them is fast and available public charging. Clog those chargers up with non-Tesla cars and they take a bigger hit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
The tax credit is still available today and can be applied toward purchases of both plug-in hybrids and fully electric vehicles. Some models are no longer eligible for the purchase subsidy. Once a car company has sold 200,000 electrified vehicles, the credit begins to phase out and eventually lapses all together.
 
The revisions to the present federal income tax rebate for purchasers of qualified plug-in hybrid and electric vehicles are contained in Senate Bill 1298, the Clean Energy for America Act. It covers a slew of energy related issues, not just EV credits. vidmate app download insta save
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top