Pushmi-Pullyu
Well-Known Member
If that's true, then it's doubly amazing that you are very nearly always wrong about Tesla and its cars.
Why do the Usual Suspects feel compelled to publicize their ignorance?
Elon Musk now bullying short sellers and all and every critic
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If that's true, then it's doubly amazing that you are very nearly always wrong about Tesla and its cars.
Why do the Usual Suspects feel compelled to publicize their ignorance?
David Green
Well-Known Member
Speaking of lying, have you read through Tesla's filing in the securities case Wochos v. Tesla? here is a specifically interesting statement I saw;
"Defendants concede the material falsity of Defendant Musk’s August 2, 2017 statement, conveying then current facts, about “a gigantic machine producing – that’s meant for 5,000 vehicles a week and it’s producing a few hundred vehicles a week.”
Oops... there are a few other interesting statements in the file, you can go discover on your own.
You ever going to let that go? You've probably posted that exact same line over 100 times! Saying it over and over doesn't make it so. Was there ever an actual promised date for when you could get it for 35K? Do you actually think it would make business sense for them to be producing the 35k version when they can sell every higher priced version they can make? What makes you so bitter? I'm an electric car fan, and so by definition I am a Tesla fan. We wouldn't have a decent electric car if it wasn't for Tesla. I am definitely not generally a Chevy fan but I am a Chevy Bolt fan and my Bolt should be arriving any day now. It fits my needs better than the Tesla options. Pretty sure you'd call me Tesla biased though as I agree with pretty much every negative statement about the Tesla Shorts. You are just downright anti Tesla no matter what you try to tell yourself.
David Green
Well-Known Member
bitter? Interesting that you think I am bitter? I am also an EV fan, and a fan of green-tech in general. Congrats on your Bolt by the way. May I ask why you chose the Bolt over the Model 3? To answer your question Yes I do think it would makes sense for Tesla to build the car they advertised over 2 years ago that is priced at 35K, and eligible for the 7500 tax credit, as many people were lead to believe would be an option. I have 2 guys that work for me that stood in line to place deposits to buy that car. GM built the Bolt as advertised, and actually gave it more range then they promised, they started with the base Bolts first, and within a couple weeks were building the premier as well. Same with Jaguar and the I-Pace, Jaguar started rolling out the base model, and actually they were surprised, and got more orders than they anticipated for the HSE and First Edition models, as a result there are some delays due to parts shortages on the high end models. I do not hate Tesla, and am not anti Tesla, there are many things I like about their products... They do not fit my lifestyle, so I would not buy one, but that is not Anti... I would not buy a Ford either, but that does not mean I am anti Ford. You know, I came on this site to talk about the Jaguar I-Pace, but after posting my opinion on the original Model 3 teardown thread (having driven 2 different Model 3's myself), and getting blasted by pupu, I decided it was time to bring some balance to the conversation. Tesla's fanatic fans actually stir up resentment to the brand just by being so obnoxious. When these Tesla fans post nonsense I am not going to call them names, but just post the other side of the conversation. As I have dug more into Elon Musk, and Tesla, I have found a very sick company from an operations standpoint, that is basically in constant flux. Their business and management team does not have a solid foundation or core principles and systems, so they just operate in constant chaos. Its quite predictable, and entertaining to watch actually.
Reason for the Bolt: it's a hatch. No hatch on Model 3 is a deal breaker. The extra range and AWD was awfully tempting, but I need it to be utilitarian, fit my dog crate or a mountain bike inside. Black interior is also nearly a deal breaker. Tempted by the Model S but by the time I added in the bigger battery and non black interior it was more than I'm ready to spend.
Comparing the base to premier version of the Bolt isn't quite fair. There is no real difference between the version that really matters. Same thing with the iPace I believe (I'm not as familiar there).
The iPace is actually an interesting car but I could care less about the luxury aspect of it so the price just isn't worth it to me. I'm pretty happy with my 2010 Prius, other than it uses gas.
I have a number of friends who are basically ignorant about electric cars in general are are regularly asking me about things they hear, much of which comes from the anti-tesla posts from sources like shorters and oil interests. It's gets frustrating constantly having to educate them. And this is electric cars in general, not just Tesla.
David Green
Well-Known Member
Nice, the Bolt is a good choice, a well engineered and competently built car. I know what you mean about shorters, some of their stories are not even close to reality... Sometimes though they have some insight that proves out to be right on target. I have learned in business keep an open mind, know and understand all sides of the discussion.
Agree with you, the I-Pace is not for everyone, and if you do not want the luxury and features it is a waste of money. For me, I also have many naive friends and want to loan our I-Pace out so that friends can see how an EV fits in their life.
I recently took my buddy out car shopping (started at Mercedes, and Lexus), and we drove the Bolt and the Leaf, he needed up buying the Leaf because of the deal we got. He is not a traveller, and just commutes back and forth to work, goes shopping etc... For him it was nearly a perfect car, and he got it for $30,550, including Tech Package, Pro Pilot, etc... He also got 0% financing, its really hard to pass up that deal. The Bolt was going to be about $10K more, and he could not justify the value even though he knew the Bolt is a better engineered car. If the 35K Model 3 was available he would have bought that.
Sorry, had to turn up the squelch . . . the signal-to-noise level has gotten too bad.
I'll still hang with those who actually own a plug-in so we can 'talk technical.'
Bob Wilson
I'll still hang with those who actually own a plug-in so we can 'talk technical.'
Bob Wilson
Pushmi-Pullyu
Well-Known Member
No, and I would certainly need a far more important reason to spend time on that than comments from someone displaying his OCD trait. I will certainly concede that your obsession with such niggley details about Tesla vastly exceeds mine.
Gotta feel sorry for someone who is so busy looking for bad things to say about Tesla that he's blind to the vast amount of good things they have done and are doing.
I'm far more interested in the EV industry as a whole; the broad picture. That's why I visit InsideEVs every day, because -- thank goodness -- they don't focus on just one model or one brand of EV. I still find it shocking that you had never heard of CODA, or Aptera, or (Project) Better Place, or Th!nk.
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Pushmi-Pullyu
Well-Known Member
I hope to see some reports posted to this forum on your experience with the Bolt EV! And here's hoping that you have many years of happy driving with your new EV.
Its not like the WJS is unbiased. This is just a loss leader. This is why I was saying CNBC should have its charter pulled. You can't have an entity where the center of gravity is all about taking money to intentionally misrepresent to the public, to lie to and intentionally mislead the public. That is a public menace, public enemy kind of thing that needs the charter revoked.
Tired of this BS where people say there is no conspiracy against Tesla. The examples are adding up. First the Koch backed PR type firm caught being employed to go after Tesla. Then that Oil exec impersonating Musk to try to get info. The this guy sabotaging Tesla and using shill rag BI as a proxy for what presumably is some petrol entity. Now This Montana Skeptic another oil entity. Then News Week spreading that Musk "should be shot" in one of its head lines. Then NYT saying Musk never achieved anything. You can be pretty sure that the so called Montana Skeptic wouldn't have stopped if there weren't some culpability. Think about what the petrol industry has done in pursuit of its profit.
Think about how much stupid coverage there has been of Tesla fires. The amount of FUD is unprecedented because if Tesla succeeds it means people understand petrol is no longer necessary nor cost competitive. It means that the stories about the titanic going to the scrap yard in 40-50 years get tossed for the realization that its going to the bottom of the ocean in a few hours.
@TeslaInvestors the nic title implies representing Tesla Investors as a group and shorts while sometimes they are Tesla investors seeking insurance are generally not investors just hacks, that its not legitimate skin in the game, shorting really should be illegal, as it allows profiting from stuff like 911 as we saw did happen, their should not be financial incentives for lying. .
Tired of this BS where people say there is no conspiracy against Tesla. The examples are adding up. First the Koch backed PR type firm caught being employed to go after Tesla. Then that Oil exec impersonating Musk to try to get info. The this guy sabotaging Tesla and using shill rag BI as a proxy for what presumably is some petrol entity. Now This Montana Skeptic another oil entity. Then News Week spreading that Musk "should be shot" in one of its head lines. Then NYT saying Musk never achieved anything. You can be pretty sure that the so called Montana Skeptic wouldn't have stopped if there weren't some culpability. Think about what the petrol industry has done in pursuit of its profit.
Think about how much stupid coverage there has been of Tesla fires. The amount of FUD is unprecedented because if Tesla succeeds it means people understand petrol is no longer necessary nor cost competitive. It means that the stories about the titanic going to the scrap yard in 40-50 years get tossed for the realization that its going to the bottom of the ocean in a few hours.
@TeslaInvestors the nic title implies representing Tesla Investors as a group and shorts while sometimes they are Tesla investors seeking insurance are generally not investors just hacks, that its not legitimate skin in the game, shorting really should be illegal, as it allows profiting from stuff like 911 as we saw did happen, their should not be financial incentives for lying. .
TeslaInvestors
Active Member
101101, the plural in my name is due to the forum I was trying to promote to have an unbiased and friendly Tesla related discussion for investors.
http://teslainvestors.freeforums.net/
That obviously didn't take off. I'm not a group. Just someone with open eyes that can see the scams (consumer, investor, subsidy, worker exploitation, etc.) perpetrated by Tesla, particularly Elon Musk and his family. The sooner you open your eyes from the trance you were put in at the church of Elon, the better for you.
You can take the legitimacy question of shorting/options play to the Nasdaq and NY exchanges. I'm sure they are there so lot of people can feed on these games.
You can make same argument on long side also. Many say, George Bush declared war on Iraq so his buddies' and his own companies, e.g. Haliburton, could profit from it. There was no 'weapons of mass destruction' found there, as a school kid could tell from the silly videos Colin Powell presented to the UN. A lot of Iraqi civilians were killed by American bombing, but who kept the count?
Look at posters like yourself (possibly Tesla shareholder) who are pimping the stock and the company everywhere.
Same thing about the Tesla referral code earners. Many are doing a disservice by hiding Tesla issues to potential buyers. There is a reason bird dogging is illegal, but Tesla engages in that anyway.
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Pushmi-Pullyu
Well-Known Member
If that is an example of what you consider either "unbiased" or "friendly", then no wonder your forum didn't take off.
The very last thing the Internet needs is yet another gathering place for Tesla Hater Cultist trolls and FUDsters. How could you possibly compete with the Seeking Alpha and Yahoo Finance forums?
David Green
Well-Known Member
If that is an example of what you consider either "unbiased" or "friendly", then no wonder your forum didn't take off.
The very last thing the Internet needs is yet another gathering place for Tesla Hater Cultist trolls and FUDsters. How could you possibly compete with the Seeking Alpha and Yahoo Finance forums?
For both of you to think about... The constant argument sucks..
TeslaInvestors
Active Member
Elon's mask is falling off on twitter. Crazy things going on, uncontrolled. Like father, like son.
David Green
Well-Known Member
Some of the things Elon posts on twitter, and says are really insane... I have been thinking he was losing it for a while, as he seems to be losing his grip on reality... The earnings call should be fun, he has lots of ground to make up with investors, and the analysts will be trying to excite him.
Since tweets are now deleted, I will provide context: @elonmusk was asked if he did call the boss of Montana Skeptic, @elonmusk tweeted that he doesn't know the girl, then there was some reference to Hannah Montana and @elonmusk then posted a suggestive image of Miley Cyrus bend over with a male standing behind her from one of her concerts. From my understanding, he basically implied that Montana Skeptic got ****ed in the *** (and still no official word if he indeed called MS boss and threaten to sue).
@elonmusk behavior is getting rather erratic lately, all he needs to do is make a profit and shorts will lose their shorts. The first instance of such behavior was a cancellation of Model X delivery to a person who blogged unfavorably about Model X reveal. Then for a long time nothing, but several of his actions during last few months are just not befitting of a $50bn company CEO.
Can still be found in Google cache: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1022434301118316545
@elonmusk behavior is getting rather erratic lately, all he needs to do is make a profit and shorts will lose their shorts. The first instance of such behavior was a cancellation of Model X delivery to a person who blogged unfavorably about Model X reveal. Then for a long time nothing, but several of his actions during last few months are just not befitting of a $50bn company CEO.
Can still be found in Google cache: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1022434301118316545
David Green
Well-Known Member
Since tweets are now deleted, I will provide context: @elonmusk was asked if he did call the boss of Montana Skeptic, @elonmusk tweeted that he doesn't know the girl, then there was some reference to Hannah Montana and @elonmusk then posted a suggestive image of Miley Cyrus bend over with a male standing behind her from one of her concerts. From my understanding, he basically implied that Montana Skeptic got ****ed in the *** (and still no official word if he indeed called MS boss and threaten to sue).
@elonmusk behavior is getting rather erratic lately, all he needs to do is make a profit and shorts will lose their shorts. The first instance of such behavior was a cancellation of Model X delivery to a person who blogged unfavorably about Model X reveal. Then for a long time nothing, but several of his actions during last few months are just not befitting of a $50bn company CEO.
Can still be found in Google cache: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1022434301118316545
I am not sure Elon really posted that, if he did, he has reached a new low in my opinion...
Domenick
Well-Known Member
I saw this pic this morning and it took me most of the day to put "Montana Skeptic" and "Hannah Montana" together (I didn't see the Lycanthrope tweet). Not sure if he thought it was funny, because it wasn't. Hardly the worst thing ever, but he really needs to keep his eyes on the prize.
*Edit to add, personally, I didn't take it as sexual innuendo, though I understand how some might.
Actually, I read a great piece on how Gwynne Shotwell runs SpaceX with him today and thought, "You know, maybe Gwynne should run both companies."
Side note: Despite reading two separate articles yesterday that claimed Musk instructed people at his companies not to return her calls or emails, the piece was co-written by Dana Hull.
*Edit to add, personally, I didn't take it as sexual innuendo, though I understand how some might.
Actually, I read a great piece on how Gwynne Shotwell runs SpaceX with him today and thought, "You know, maybe Gwynne should run both companies."
Side note: Despite reading two separate articles yesterday that claimed Musk instructed people at his companies not to return her calls or emails, the piece was co-written by Dana Hull.
David Green
Well-Known Member
Gwynne Shotwell is well thought of in many industries, and executives I know in the space industry say she is more valuable to SpaceX then Elon himself.
Posing that picture is terrible for a CEO... I really believe Elon is losing it, as I have said multiple times.
Domenick
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I've seen lots of speculation he's "losing it." Was thinking about this a bit yesterday and wondered if it wasn't because he has a girlfriend right now and feels invulnerable or something. He's a pretty emotional guy. Quick to anger, but also to tears. I just know the last time I was in a similar situation, my brain stopped functioning rationally.
I'm hoping this next analyst call is boring, though I have a strong suspicion it won't be.