Elevation

[Clamps]

I'm planning on my first longish road trip with the Kona next weekend. The entire distance is only 137 miles to the destination. Which means I will probably have to charge on the way home. Looking at PlugShare I noted what looks like a large elevation change towards the end of the trip.

How much impact does this have on EV's and more specifically a Kona?

Thanks!

 

[R P]

A lot!! I live in the mountains and range is drastically reduced when climbing up a long uphill. Good news is that regen works very well on way down, but certainly is nowhere hear net neutral. Having said that, it is no different than in an ICE car with extra fuel consumed going up. But while lots of coasting (and braking) there is no energy recovery on the way down. So you would probably fare better with an EV in the mountains, on a net % extra energy used.

 

[Fastnf]

I live at 4000 ft above sea level in California so am used to elevation changes.. I fugue about 30% loss in range for every 1000 feet of climbing. Like RP said you get some but not all of it back on the down side. I figure about 20 % increase in range per 1000 feet of decent. Over all on a round trip about 10% loss of range. Of course that's based my driving style and climate. One trip I make has about 2500 ft of elevation change. Its 160 miles round trip. Travailing back roads at 55mph I usually arrive home with about 75 miles of range left. Giving and over all range of 235 miles which really I think is quite good..

 

[Esprit1st]

Looking at your graph it looks like the elevation change is not that bad. Look at the numbers! Change from ~300ft to ~1400ft. That is not that much! If it was 200 to 4000 it definitely would be different

It's all relative! The graph just looks intimidating but 1000 feet will be behind you quickly. Yes, you'll only get maybe 1.5 m/kWh but again, it'll be over quick.

 

[Fastnf]

I am sorry in my post it should have said 10% increase per 1000 feet of climbing. and 7% for decent. I was thinking of a 3000 foot elevation change that I used to figure out my range usage. Which is where the 30% change comes from.

 

[bwilson4web]

I am sorry in my post it should have said 10% increase per 1000 feet of climbing. and 7% for decent. I was thinking of a 3000 foot elevation change that I used to figure out my range usage. Which is where the 30% change comes from.

Glad you corrected the rate. My Std Rng Plus Model 3 loses about 1.5%, ~3.5 mi, per 1,000 ft on the climb.

Bob Wilson

 

[kavade]

Glad you corrected the rate. My Std Rng Plus Model 3 loses about 1.5%, ~3.5 mi, per 1,000 ft on the climb.

Bob Wilson

I just joined this forum today because I am looking at buying an EV, maybe a Kona, but I live at 4000 feet and I don't know if an EV will work for me.
It's 35 miles from my home to the nearest real city. Going down the hill is no problem but what about coming back up? Do I understand correctly that I could expect to lose about 6% on the way back up?

 

[Clamps]

Looking at your graph it looks like the elevation change is not that bad. Look at the numbers! Change from ~300ft to ~1400ft. That is not that much! If it was 200 to 4000 it definitely would be different

It's all relative! The graph just looks intimidating but 1000 feet will be behind you quickly. Yes, you'll only get maybe 1.5 m/kWh but again, it'll be over quick.

I thought it was a bit exaggerated but I’m just a tiny bit nervous because I convinced my wife to take the electric car. I don’t think we will get stranded but I don’t want her to get range anxiety during the trip. She often asks, “can we make it” for thirty mile trips when we had 100 mile range on our previous car.

There aren’t a lot of rapid chargers or even level 2 chargers in western Mass on this route but there are plenty midway.

 

[ericy]

There aren’t a lot of rapid chargers or even level 2 chargers in western Mass on this route but there are plenty midway.

That's part of the key - just knowing in the back of your head where the extra chargers are in your area. When I first got my Kona, I stopped at a few of them - not because I needed a charge, but because I wanted to verify that I had the app installed correctly, and of course verify that the charger itself seemed to function, and all that. One time I had my wife do the same thing, so she had an idea of how it is all done.

 

[Fastnf]

I just joined this forum today because I am looking at buying an EV, maybe a Kona, but I live at 4000 feet and I don't know if an EV will work for me.
It's 35 miles from my home to the nearest real city. Going down the hill is no problem but what about coming back up? Do I understand correctly that I could expect to lose about 6% on the way back up?

I live at 4000 feet as well (Tehachapi California). You don't say how far down the hill your going (sea level or some other elevation ) or how quickly you descend, but I would estimate that your round trip would take around 90-100 miles of range in a Kona, maybe less in a Tesla model 3. Easily done in today's longer range electrics. These figures are estimates, the amount you will use will depend on your speed, and how quickly you ascend or descend. As an example I have a kona electric with 258 + miles of range. I occasionally travel to Bakersfield California which is a 50 mile trip with 3600 feet of elevation change I drive at 65 mph. Round trip is 100 miles. If I start with a full charge I will usually get to Bakersfield with 230 miles of range left. I use a bout 28 miles of range to go the 50 miles down the hill. Coming back it usually takes about 85 miles coming back and I don't slow down on the ascent. Over all it takes about 18 miles range more than on the flat. I should note my decent starts about 10 mile from the house. At that point I descend 3000 feet in about 15 miles the last 500 feet is rolling hills.

 

[Bruce M.]

What this thread is describing will be in my experience sometime this year: My brother lives about 165 miles from me, about 2500 ft above my elevation. I clearly will not make it round trip on one charge, but will charge overnight in his garage wall socket. That will still probably not be quite enough, unless I stay more than 1 day, so I am scouting potential charging locations on the route home. Happily, there are enough fast chargers along the route that I feel okay.

 

[Fastnf]

What this thread is describing will be in my experience sometime this year: My brother lives about 165 miles from me, about 2500 ft above my elevation. I clearly will not make it round trip on one charge, but will charge overnight in his garage wall socket. That will still probably not be quite enough, unless I stay more than 1 day, so I am scouting potential charging locations on the route home. Happily, there are enough fast chargers along the route that I feel okay.

If your brother has any 240 volt plugs that you could charge on with an adapter to whatever plug he has. That would increase you charge rate assuming you have a portable 240 volt charger. Just keep the amp rating at 80% of the plug rating this can be done either via the EVSE if so equipped or by using the setting in the car. Even over night on a 120v plug you should get a a 27% boost. That should get you up to 55% charge and 140 miles of range. Going down hill on the way back that might actually be enough to get you home. Though I would probably look for a DCFC about 1.5 -2 hr out and stop for a 15-25 minute charge which should get you home with plenty to spare.

 

[Bruce M.]

If your brother has any 240 volt plugs that you could charge on with an adapter to whatever plug he has. That would increase you charge rate assuming you have a portable 240 volt charger. Just keep the amp rating at 80% of the plug rating this can be done either via the EVSE if so equipped or by using the setting in the car. Even over night on a 120v plug you should get a a 27% boost. That should get you up to 55% charge and 140 miles of range. Going down hill on the way back that might actually be enough to get you home. Though I would probably look for a DCFC about 1.5 -2 hr out and stop for a 15-25 minute charge which should get you home with plenty to spare.

I don't have a portable 240v charger. I drive so little that I just use the plug that came with the car and my trusty wall socket. I have no desire to invest in equipment I'm not likely to have a use for more than once or twice a year. And yeah, from my rough calculations I think I might barely get home, but would be cutting it a little too close for comfort, so will probably stop and charge on the way home.

 

[kavade]

I live at 4000 feet as well (Tehachapi California). You don't say how far down the hill your going (sea level or some other elevation ) or how quickly you descend, but I would estimate that your round trip would take around 90-100 miles of range in a Kona, maybe less in a Tesla model 3. Easily done in today's longer range electrics. These figures are estimates, the amount you will use will depend on your speed, and how quickly you ascend or descend. As an example I have a kona electric with 258 + miles of range. I occasionally travel to Bakersfield California which is a 50 mile trip with 3600 feet of elevation change I drive at 65 mph. Round trip is 100 miles. If I start with a full charge I will usually get to Bakersfield with 230 miles of range left. I use a bout 28 miles of range to go the 50 miles down the hill. Coming back it usually takes about 85 miles coming back and I don't slow down on the ascent. Over all it takes about 18 miles range more than on the flat. I should note my decent starts about 10 mile from the house. At that point I descend 3000 feet in about 15 miles the last 500 feet is rolling hills.

Thank you for the reply. You describe approximately what I would be doing. Even if I increase your estimate by a fair margin, I still find the numbers
to be OK. So this is looking likely to me now. Again, my thanks.