Elephant in the room

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Esprit1st

Esprit1st

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Let's talk about the elephant in the room:

Let's say you get a call from your Hyundai dealer that as a safety recall they need to get your car in and they need to do another battery software update and the car will lose 20% of it's range. So instead of 258 miles or will only have a range of 190 miles afterwards.

What's your answer?

Can you live with that? If you return the car, what car would you consider instead? Would you take a 2021 model year?

I love my Kona and would not want a different car. So if I'd get a good deal I would go with the 2021 model year. If I couldn't get that, the only other cars I really like as much as the kona are the VW id3 (yes, not the 4 and the car would have to be available right now anyways) or the Polestar 2. I'm not into Teslas.
 
I don't think you can simply return your car, unless it is a lemon. I am not sure what rights you have as the car owner to argue with Hyundai over the loss in range. Maybe deceptive advertising, but Hyundai can claim that the fires were unanticipated, and the BMS update which will make the car safer has the unwarranted side effect of decreasing the battery capacity.

Kona EV owners can go to court over this as a class action lawsuit. Not sure how much money will the owners recoup after a settlement is reached.
 
I went with a Kona Electric specifically because it has more than enough range to cover every contingency I could think of, but even 20% less range or whatever I'm still good for 95th-percentile scenarios.

Since I'm leasing, I could deal with the reduced range for a year or two and then it's the dealer's problem. What replaces it will depend on what's available at the time.
 
If range had to be lowered by 20%, I’d ask for a buyback as I specifically bought my Kona because of that range. Personally, I have had zero problems with my Kona and I love driving it. But if it starts to have issues, then I won’t hold onto it long. Ironically, I put a deposit last week on a Mustang Mach-E to hold a spot until I could decide later if I want to take delivery. Looks like that’s probably going to happen now.
 
Esprit1st said:
I love my Kona and would not want a different car. So if I'd get a good deal I would go with the 2021 model year. If I couldn't get that, the only other cars I really like as much as the kona are the VW id3 (yes, not the 4 and the car would have to be available right now anyways) or the Polestar 2. I'm not into Teslas.
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That's a tough one. I find the VW ID.4 tempting, but it won't be available for a while. Or I could get another Kona off the lot. My wife and I were talking - we could just go down to one car until an ID.4 became available (and supplement with Enterprise when I need to make a trip into DC). Between the two of us, we have had 4 VW diesels (one of which got bought back by VW), and despite this I still kind of like the VW brand.

I am not into Tesla either. Just last night I saw one, and realized that it had a shark-nose that looked a lot like a Citroën DS.
 
I don't think they can drop the usable range by 20% without a major refund to buyers as that would decrease the value of our cars by at least that much.
 
doggyworld said:
I don't think they can drop the usable range by 20% without a major refund to buyers as that would decrease the value of our cars by at least that much.
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It is kind of weird - most EV owners don't charge above 80% most of the time, but like having the option to charge to 100% when you need the extra range. So what is the value of that 20%? I really don't know.

But it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of Kona owners were upset (to put it politely) if they tried to force that limit.

At this point we haven't heard anything directly from Hyundai. A lot of this is really speculation based upon news reports from Korea, and I would want to see some confirmation from Hyundai before I get too worked over about this.
 
Before COVID-19 it probably wouldn't have been a big deal for me since I didn't need the range on a daily basis.

However, now in my new job I will have to drive a 180 mile drive a few times a month. It's no problem with the current range, but if I could only use 80% of the battery it would be an extremely close call.

So if it came to that it's not acceptable for me.

Right now I don't worry about it. The car has been the best I've ever had and I'm fine driving it. I'll worry about it if Hyundai decides to do something funny to my car.
 
Esprit1st said:
the car will lose 20% of it's range. So instead of 258 miles or will only have a range of 190 miles afterwards.

What's your answer?

Can you live with that? If you return the car, what car would you consider instead? Would you take a 2021 model year?
Click to expand...
Option #1 - Sell me a 2021 at a $10,000 discount , I paid $60k new including taxes, extended warranty etc *.2 = $12K (less $2K for mileage driven)
I would also require a service contract discount as the cooling system maintenance will cost more on the 2021 model, and the extended warranty to be re-applied for the full 8 years as original (not the 6 remaining) as a goodwill gesture.
Option #2 - Replace the defective battery assembly with a new one (with the full 258 mile range) as provided by the 96 month/ 160,000 km defect and/or workmanship under normal use and maintenance warranty period. I would have use of the vehicle at it's new lowered capacity while the battery is being delivered or have use of a substantial (not smaller) loaner with fuel paid in full if that loaner is ICE .
Option #3 - TBD
 
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Since I am leasing I would drive until the lease is up in a little over a year. Then my current choices are the Volvo xc40 or the Mustang Mach E.
 
doggyworld said:
I don't think they can drop the usable range by 20% without a major refund to buyers as that would decrease the value of our cars by at least that much.
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Yeah this is an unsubstantiated rumor, they literally edited all the Korean articles that mentioned doing this.
 
electriceddy said:
Option #1 - Sell me a 2021 at a $10,000 discount , I paid $60k new including taxes, extended warranty etc *.2 = $12K (less $2K for mileage driven)
I would also require a service contract discount as the cooling system maintenance will cost more on the 2021 model, and the extended warranty to be re-applied for the full 8 years as original (not the 6 remaining) as a goodwill gesture.
Option #2 - Replace the defective battery assembly with a new one (with the full 258 mile range) as provided by the 96 month/ 160,000 km defect and/or workmanship under normal use and maintenance warranty period. I would have use of the vehicle at it's new lowered capacity while the battery is being delivered or have use of a substantial (not smaller) loaner with fuel paid in full if that loaner is ICE .
Option #3 - TBD
Click to expand...

Option 1 - I will doubt that Hyundai will buyback your vehicle and give you a new model, because you are unhappy with the loss in range. Even if you calculate depreciation, Hyundai will be eating a big loss. Plus it is no guarantee that you will not run into similar problems on 2021 models. Hyundai may even stop selling Kona EVs until they get this issue resolved.

Option 2 - I will doubt Hyundai will replace your old battery with a new battery (if your battery does not show some sort of >0.1V cell deviation). They might replace bad cells within your battery (like 1 of the 5 sub-assemblies that Ericy mentioned). That will be a refurbished battery, not a new one. Again, according to the news article that was posted by one of the members, even Hyundai nor LG Chem can re-create the fire in test scenarios....they can only surmise it was due to some sort of short-circuit within one of the cells. Until they know what the problem is, new batteries or old batteries will not make a difference because they are all of the same design. Not sure if they are manufactured the same way, but the overall design of the battery is the same.

Option 3 - Class action lawsuit.

Until then, BMS software patches, and replacing the battery if it does show cell deviation is the approach that Hyundai is taking.
 
Option 4 - don't worry about, based on the current numbers it looks like you have 1 in 9000 chance that your Kona will explode. To put that into perspective you are 3 x more likely to be struck by lightening during your lifetime (1 in 3000) according to google.
 
Dumb question: How do you find the date it was manufactured? Is that the date on the upper left corner of the black sticker in the driver's side door frame?
 
TRSmith said:
Dumb question: How do you find the date it was manufactured? Is that the date on the upper left corner of the black sticker in the driver's side door frame?
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Actually a good question since it's not immediately obvious if you don't "know cars"

Yes; There should be a sticker inside the driver's door frame that says something like "MFD. IN KOREA BY HYUNDAI MOTOR CORP. X/XX" where X/XX is a date.
 
Genevamech said:
Actually a good question since it's not immediately obvious if you don't "know cars"

Yes; There should be a sticker inside the driver's door frame that says something like "MFD. IN KOREA BY HYUNDAI MOTOR CORP. X/XX" where X/XX is a date.
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Thanks, thought so.

Feb. 26, 2020.
 
Genevamech said:
Actually a good question since it's not immediately obvious if you don't "know cars"
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It's not directly marked on my early EU example. I had to decode the VIN just to find the month.

My impression of the situation so far is that the SK government has forced Hyundai's hand in that country. I would imagine that Hyundai USA has applied for a voluntary recall (meaning they are volunteering to carry it out instead of being forced) as a legal move, even if they have no idea what they will do about it.
 
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