Electrify America Chargers

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electriceddy said:
Electrify Canada increases installation of DC fast chargers to 90 (from 20):
https://insideevs.com/news/393120/electrify-canada-canadian-tire-fast-charge-locations/
Great news for travel convenience, bad news for the wallet.
Already 10% higher cost than Electrify America with the tier pricing, hopefully an eventual shift to per kWh rates would provide affordable use of these units.
I guess we will wait and see just how many people use them with the present price structure.
or
The alternate would be to contact the Minister of Natural Resources (who provided 2.7 million dollars in funding towards the cost and installation of the fast chargers under the federal governments Electric Vehicle and Alternative Fuel infrastructure Deployment initiative).
Click to expand...
Need to demand government bans time based charging cost.Use kWh,it's fuel,not a service.Time based charging gouges as each EV has a different charge speed,BMS... If it's cold,and depending on the charger's configuration,and how warm/cold your EV is. A driver could look at $20 for about 50% charge. If you look at the $T dollar US subsidy to oil,and about a couple $B in Canada.The chargers subsidized at a similar rate to ICE fuel,per kWh cost,we would have more EV adoption. To travel to South Carolina shouldn't cost 7 times,or worse what my premium fueled PHEV would cost.
 
I’m planning a trip Richmond BC to Oregon coast this coming weekend. Making a few stops along the way. Thinking of charging at Electrify America chargers should I preload money on account? Or not bother for now and simply use credit card I realize there is a user fee as well....are the Walmart locations usually busy?

I’m thinking of stopping at Lacey, Wa location 144miles (305km) from departure(Richmond B.C.) Thinking with 4pax and luggage in car I should be able to make it? Too optimistic?

Other one I thought about was Three Rivers Mall but that’s 207miles(421km) from departure without charging.....

My GOM only shows 405km usually so I’m not sure I can even trust it or just go my SOC?

Then head to Cannon Beach. And possibly Mount St. Helens on way back it think might be a good test for the Kona the Uphill...




Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
 
Grego said:
I’m planning a trip Richmond BC to Oregon coast this coming weekend. Making a few stops along the way. Thinking of charging at Electrify America chargers should I preload money on account? Or not bother for now and simply use credit card I realize there is a user fee as well....are the Walmart locations usually busy?

I’m thinking of stopping at Lacey, Wa location 144miles (305km) from departure(Richmond B.C.) Thinking with 4pax and luggage in car I should be able to make it? Too optimistic?

Other one I thought about was Three Rivers Mall but that’s 207miles(421km) from departure without charging.....

My GOM only shows 405km usually so I’m not sure I can even trust it or just go my SOC?

Then head to Cannon Beach. And possibly Mount St. Helens on way back it think might be a good test for the Kona the Uphill...


Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
Click to expand...

What's your SOC when you leave,90% ? I am thinking you should charge at 275km/170miles just to be safe as the speed is about 74 mph/120kmh speeds? Then there's potential for rain:rolleyes: which can suck range,depending on ambient temp.,wind,elevation again.

I don't like EA,and would avoid if I could,but it's probably not an option?If you do use,try to only go to 60% to avoid the stupid penalty for 75kWh, tier two Kona EV don't benefit from.

Not sure if you have used,but we periodically use A Better Route Planner over our X mapping as it accounts for range robbing elevation.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.iternio.abrpapp&hl=en_CA

https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/a-better-routeplanner-abrp/id1490860521
 
Grego said:
I’m planning a trip Richmond BC to Oregon coast this coming weekend. Making a few stops along the way. Thinking of charging at Electrify America chargers should I preload money on account? Or not bother for now and simply use credit card I realize there is a user fee as well....are the Walmart locations usually busy?

I’m thinking of stopping at Lacey, Wa location 144miles (305km) from departure(Richmond B.C.) Thinking with 4pax and luggage in car I should be able to make it? Too optimistic?

Other one I thought about was Three Rivers Mall but that’s 207miles(421km) from departure without charging.....

My GOM only shows 405km usually so I’m not sure I can even trust it or just go my SOC?

Then head to Cannon Beach. And possibly Mount St. Helens on way back it think might be a good test for the Kona the Uphill...




Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
Click to expand...
Canon Beach is beautiful and St Helens is definitely worth a visit. I used to live in Portland. Very beautiful area.

However, even if you only use an EA once. It makes sense to go with an account and pay the monthly fee of $4! They charge a lot less per minute (I believe about ¢20. That's only a 20 minute charge to recoup the $4 and then you will save money!.

BTW I programmed a website http://www.ev-charge-cost.com to calculate charging costs ahead of time.
 
ehatch said:
What's your SOC when you leave,90% ? I am thinking you should charge at 275km/170miles just to be safe as the speed is about 74 mph/120kmh speeds? Then there's potential for rain[emoji57] which can suck range,depending on ambient temp.,wind,elevation again.

I don't like EA,and would avoid if I could,but it's probably not an option?If you do use,try to only go to 60% to avoid the stupid penalty for 75kWh, tier two Kona EV don't benefit from.

Not sure if you have used,but we periodically use A Better Route Planner over our X mapping as it accounts for range robbing elevation.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.iternio.abrpapp&hl=en_CA

https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/a-better-routeplanner-abrp/id1490860521
Click to expand...

I might hear from a few people on this forum but.....I have always been charging to 100% on my Morec 32amp Level 2 charger. When I use a DC Fast Charger I usually go to 80-85%....

I’m just over 12k since October 26th(possession date) and have always been charging to 100%

Well now with the advisory from BC Health Ministy no more travel [emoji19]


Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
 
Grego said:
I might hear from a few people on this forum but.....I have always been charging to 100% on my Morec 32amp Level 2 charger. When I use a DC Fast Charger I usually go to 80-85%....

I’m just over 12k since October 26th(possession date) and have always been charging to 100%

Well now with the advisory from BC Health Ministy no more travel [emoji19]


Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
Click to expand...
I think Hyundai has given its battery the header required to handle your 100% charging without bad premature degradation since you're not really getting 100%. It's DC that could degrade the Li quicker so the 80% - 90% should be safe.Try to run the battery down into the 15-25% zone before charging up again,it's also when you will see the ~75kW on a station that supports 100kW,or higher.You can still do a road trip,it's a social distancing thing,so distance yourself by driving your Kona electric out to a foresto_O Test the elevation changes to learn the tolerance of your range,charge...
 
hobbit said:
Because they're out of touch with the capacity of today's EV batteries, and
believe that they have to intervene in an access arbitration process that
the humans on the ground can solve on their own. It's ivory-tower
ignorance at work, and people need to keep CALLING them on it.

_H*
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hobbit said:
You can't limit for DCFC, which is idiotic on Hyundai's part. It would
be SIMPLE to do in firmware; all the BMS has to do is tell the charge
controller "only this much please".

_H*
Click to expand...
I am still hoping Hyundai checks forums such as this. I actually found their official specifications & consumer information.The car is capable of charging at 100kW,they should unlock it
040319_kona EVa.webp
.
040319_kona EV.webp
 
electriceddy said:
Finally E.A. will make the switch to "pay by kWh pricing":
https://insideevs.com/news/423141/electrify-america-exclusive-interview-pay-by-kwh/
Hopefully Electrify Canada follows suit, and the $ is reasonable;)
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Not sure where you saw a $ amount since Tom only mentions what it came out to be on his last time based charge that he did on an EA charger.

But I agree that it's generally a better pricing structure. It will be a mixed bag in the end. It will be cheaper for us on the low end of the high tier, but possibly more expensive for ones on the high end of the low tier.
 
'Bout time! All those people hammering on them must have finally prevailed.
They should be maintaining a list of the "time states" on their website, for
easier trip planning, and change over in those states the *instant* the
non-utility legislation passes. That will keep happening pretty quickly,
I imagine, and maybe by the time we actually start going places again
the whole situation will be more financially fair.

California left way too much "grandfathered" wiggle room, when the reality
of how to bill comes down to firmware updates. Bad precedent.

_H*
 
I've now been on a few long trips in the Kona EV and it pretty much gets the miles it says it has. But I can milk the thing to better than 4Mi/kWh; in fact, one 129 mile trip I managed 5.2Mi/kWh using regen 0 and exceeding the speed limit.

For the long trips we traveled from Deer Isle, ME to Montreal, QC and back late Nov 2019 and traveled from Deer Isle, ME to Northfield, MA and then down to Springfield, MA and back late Jan 2020. Note both were in rather chilly conditions.

On the Springfield trip I saw there was a new 350kW Electrify America charger in Chicopee, MA at the Home Depot. 350kW!!! I was very excited to see how fast the Kona would charge up. We were there Jan 25, 2020 at about 5pm (dark) and it was raining cats and dogs. Had about 25 miles of range left and needed a minimum of 150 to swing thru Northfield and back to the next CCS charger heading to ME.

The first problem was the insanely huge power hose was too short to reach the Kona's charge port. We had to park sideways to the charger just to connect.

The second problem seems to be common with the EA system. It would not initiate a charge or read my credit card. The call to tech support went well but took close to 20 minutes from arrival to juice.

If my son wasn't with me, I'm not sure I could have plugged and unplugged the power hose while on the phone with tech support because it was raining so hard. He was outside on the hose while I was wrangling the credit card.

After all that, the stats are: Max power 58.61kW -- Session length 00:43:34 -- Juice 35.5kWh

Rather disappointing. Remember that the vehicle is in control of the charge rate. Don't know why a depleted battery that had been driven for miles before charging couldn't take more of a wack. Possibly the 20 minutes of fooling around with tech support in the rain allowed the battery to cool down too much.

But the real shocker was the cost. Far and away the MOST EXPENSIVE charge ever. Start with the session fee of $1.00. Then the per minute fee of $0.58 and then top it off with $1.64 tax. For a total of $27.91. My previous record had been $16.62 for 27.72kWh at an EVGo charger in Augusta, ME.

The bottom line: avoid EA chargers unless there's no choice.
 
Geoff Marshall said:
But the real shocker was the cost. Far and away the MOST EXPENSIVE charge ever. Start with the session fee of $1.00. Then the per minute fee of $0.58 and then top it off with $1.64 tax. For a total of $27.91. My previous record had been $16.62 for 27.72kWh at an EVGo charger in Augusta, ME.

The bottom line: avoid EA chargers unless there's no choice.
Click to expand...

You need to get on the Hyundai pricing plan - it would cut the price in more or less in half. But you need to initiate the charge with the app and not a credit card - otherwise it has no idea what plan you are on, and it picks a rate based on the rate at which your car can take a charge.
 
Geoff Marshall said:
I've now been on a few long trips in the Kona EV and it pretty much gets the miles it says it has. But I can milk the thing to better than 4Mi/kWh; in fact, one 129 mile trip I managed 5.2Mi/kWh using regen 0 and exceeding the speed limit.

For the long trips we traveled from Deer Isle, ME to Montreal, QC and back late Nov 2019 and traveled from Deer Isle, ME to Northfield, MA and then down to Springfield, MA and back late Jan 2020. Note both were in rather chilly conditions.

On the Springfield trip I saw there was a new 350kW Electrify America charger in Chicopee, MA at the Home Depot. 350kW!!! I was very excited to see how fast the Kona would charge up. We were there Jan 25, 2020 at about 5pm (dark) and it was raining cats and dogs. Had about 25 miles of range left and needed a minimum of 150 to swing thru Northfield and back to the next CCS charger heading to ME.

The first problem was the insanely huge power hose was too short to reach the Kona's charge port. We had to park sideways to the charger just to connect.

The second problem seems to be common with the EA system. It would not initiate a charge or read my credit card. The call to tech support went well but took close to 20 minutes from arrival to juice.

If my son wasn't with me, I'm not sure I could have plugged and unplugged the power hose while on the phone with tech support because it was raining so hard. He was outside on the hose while I was wrangling the credit card.

After all that, the stats are: Max power 58.61kW -- Session length 00:43:34 -- Juice 35.5kWh

Rather disappointing. Remember that the vehicle is in control of the charge rate. Don't know why a depleted battery that had been driven for miles before charging couldn't take more of a wack. Possibly the 20 minutes of fooling around with tech support in the rain allowed the battery to cool down too much.

But the real shocker was the cost. Far and away the MOST EXPENSIVE charge ever. Start with the session fee of $1.00. Then the per minute fee of $0.58 and then top it off with $1.64 tax. For a total of $27.91. My previous record had been $16.62 for 27.72kWh at an EVGo charger in Augusta, ME.

The bottom line: avoid EA chargers unless there's no choice.
Click to expand...
With the EA pricing plan now, I use them often. It's a great deal. I also recommend signing up for it. With the pandemic, not sure how much congress would be able to regulate how electric vehicles are charged. The only way it is fair to charge is by power delivered. Too many things can slow down the charge rate. EA is aware of this and the plan helps. It still is not fair.
 
I finally read through both sections of Tom M's rundown on this. It's likely inaccurate
to say that EA independently decided to do this -- more like, the customer base [and
the *missing* customer base of people rightly boycotting them] made the decision
for them. Time-based simply isn't sustainable without being engaged in unending
battles about fair business practice, and they'd already milked a captive market
effectively dry. They saw a dead end coming, and are hopefully swerving in time.

I was amused by the observation that 24 cents/kWh seemed a reasonable price
for on-the-road rapid charging. Exactly what I already had on my concept sign!

As for plug & charge, what they're talking about there leaves ALL present vehicles behind.
However, also implementing Autocharge based on CCS interface MAC addresses could
accomodate them NOW. A simpler protocol, and in the real world, unjustly decried as "less
secure" by the PKI fanatics. We don't need that, and frankly I'd rather be able to simply
register a car to an account with them than mess with apps or broken card-readers.

[edit: speaking of broken, that Disqus nonsense for comments on insideevs is total crap.]

_H*
 
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I feel like it's not really news. It was discussed before that they will have to switch to kwh based just like you said. Time based just doesn't make sense. However, I also believe there was no other way to do it than what they did. Legislation forbid them to use kwh based pricing (just like every other company they had to use time based).

As usual, legislation is easy behind the curve. That's why they are basins as well.
 
ericy said:
You need to get on the Hyundai pricing plan - it would cut the price in more or less in half. But you need to initiate the charge with the app and not a credit card - otherwise it has no idea what plan you are on, and it picks a rate based on the rate at which your car can take a charge.
Click to expand...
There's a Hyundai pricing plan? (googling...) Well damn. And that looks a lot better than the Pass + that I used in December to travel 1200 miles round trip. So glad you mentioned this, thanks!
 
Apparently the "Hyundai select" pricing trick still only works through their app, you can't
do something reasonable like log into their website and launch a charge. [The app does
the moral equivalent, this shouldn't be so hard...] But needing the app also disenfranchises
anyone without a Google or itunes account -- you simply can't have it.

For Android, at least, I told EA they need to make the .APK directly downloadable from
their website. There's probably an equivalent means for Apple stuff. I have no problem
side-loading stuff I know the origin of. We shouldn't *need* to have to load yet one more
gratuitous app onto our toys just to participate, but if that's their only answer they
need to make it *available* on a nondiscriminatory basis.

_H*
 
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