Electricity prices in Texas surge.

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I think there is plenty of capacity in the grid for EV's since most of the charging can be done at home in offpeak hours. Grid capacity is limited by the peak load (kw), not consumption (kwh). At my house peak time is 3pm-7pm, shoulder is 1pm-3pm. The rest is off peak, plenty of time to charge up an EV.
As far as increasing nat gas consumption, maybe in the short run, but EV adoption is slow, and producers are slowly transitioning to renewables at the same time.

What is happening in TX is interesting, it looks like many power plants went off line.
https://financialpost.com/pmn/busin...ric-prices-spike-more-than-10000-amid-outages
"But early on Monday, ERCOT said extreme weather conditions caused many generating units – across all fuel types – to trip offline and become unavailable. That forced more than 30,000 megawatts of power generation off the grid, ERCOT said in a news release."
 
Yeah, heard on the news this morning that 2 mil customers in TX were/are without power due to snowstorms. That is huge. Here, we sometimes get local power outages due to trees falling on lines during storms. But never grid outages, totally unheard of here. Most of our power comes from hydro, so maybe that helps.

Here in Vancouver, we also got hit with snow a couple days ago, but only amounted to a dusting (a few cms) on the grass, and all melting today. Roads remained clear. But just to the south of us in Seattle and Portland they got a lot, too. And I guess that spread pretty far south in the interior right down to TX.

I did have to laugh, though, as the temps here were below freezing initially, and some neighbours got out their leaf blowers to clear their sidewalks.
 
R P said:
That's a tax implying a subsidy. I am asking for a pure feasible business case for these chargers. I don't see it. And remember taxes have to come from someone's profits and income.
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I think my point is not all electricity will come from the grid.

I do find it amusing that a guy who keeps tell us about the free electricity from BC Hydro, a crown owned utility, is concerned about taxes, profit and income.
 
marshall said:
I think my point is not all electricity will come from the grid.

I do find it amusing that a guy who keeps tell us about the free electricity from BC Hydro, a crown owned utility, is concerned about taxes, profit and income.
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Hey, if they are giving it free, I'll take it, wouldn't you. Doesn't take away from my argument about trying to implement the most cost effective grid electricity production, incl home solar installations. Didn't you read about Fastnf's experience? That IS cost effective. The Tesla power packs are just a bonus.

Our province, BC, is very supportive of EVs and clean environment solutions. Quebec in eastern Canada is also very good. They support, incl subsidies, EV adoption, without sacrificing the grid or the environment, unlike more coal or NG burning in the US. So I am very supportive of what they are doing here. I think Norway is doing it right as well, using their oil export revenues to subsidize EV adoption. Nothing wrong with that, as oil consumption needs to be reduced, not supply. They'll just get it from somewhere else. And EVs help with that.

Don't know about WA, I think you guys are better off than others. I know you also get electricity from us in BC, and we even sell it all the way down to CA. But not as much recently, as they really screwed us a number of years ago when they failed to pay us for their usage (long story).
 
Battery buffer at fast DC chargers means avoiding peak grid rate charges.

Owning a 50 kW max BMW i3-REx, I would welcome a charge rate increase more than battery range upgrade. But the 640 cc, range extender does a good job.

My girlfriend likes my 2014 BMW i3-REx that she drives on my insurance. She has a car as reliable as her boyfriend ... unlike the previous ones.

Bob Wilson
 
R P said:
Yeah, heard on the news this morning that 2 mil customers in TX were/are without power due to snowstorms. That is huge. Here, we sometimes get local power outages due to trees falling on lines during storms. But never grid outages, totally unheard of here. Most of our power comes from hydro, so maybe that helps.

Here in Vancouver, we also got hit with snow a couple days ago, but only amounted to a dusting (a few cms) on the grass, and all melting today. Roads remained clear. But just to the south of us in Seattle and Portland they got a lot, too. And I guess that spread pretty far south in the interior right down to TX.

I did have to laugh, though, as the temps here were below freezing initially, and some neighbours got out their leaf blowers to clear their sidewalks.
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Just heard again on the news, that now 3.5 mil customers in TX without power. Grid had to schedule deliberate rolling shutdowns due to insufficient electrical power capacity. Sounds like CA in the summer...

So if they are can't handle peak periods now, what will they do in 5 years, when EV adoption is supposed to explode? Better start expanding that grid capacity, and right now. Looks like a lot more fossil fuels will have to burned to keep up.
 
marshall said:
Bob's correct. As demand increases, the power grid will adapt.

So far every study I've seen has stated they can handle the initial surge of EVs with smart grid technology and time of use pricing if folks charge at home. The main issues are fast charging which stresses the grid and snow pack for the Pacific Northwest.

Under normal circumstances, the utilities will have plenty of time to add more capacity.

Here in Washington state they haven't even started implementing a smart grid with pricing based on time of use at the local level. Plus, some of the public utilities want to build small scalable nuclear power plants.

Small scalable nuclear plants are certainly one possible solution if they can build them without cost overruns. Hopefully, the demonstration project in Idaho goes according to plan.

Folks are trying to create an issue where there isn't going to be one.
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There is already one right now if you are paying attention. We already have states like NY, CA and TX calling for reduced power several times a year and implementing rolling blackouts.

And good luck building any new power plants or micro nuke plants in CA.


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bwilson4web said:
We don't live in a 'command economy.' As electrical demand increases, the free market will respond. Heck, coal has all but collapsed due to natural gas.

Bob Wilson
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Coal is still the second largest source of power in the US and far from collapsed. Your free market is misleading as it was attacked in a major way through regulation during the Obama years. And while natural gas has replaced some of it, it was able to do so because it's a by product of oil production and dirt cheap for that reason. Kill demand of oil and guess what happens to nat gas prices...


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Recoil45 said:
Coal is still the second largest source of power in the US and far from collapsed. Your free market is misleading as it was attacked in a major way through regulation during the Obama years. And while natural gas has replaced some of it, it was able to do so because it's a by product of oil production and dirt cheap for that reason. Kill demand of oil and guess what happens to nat gas prices...


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Also, killing fracking which greatly increased the supply of NG. I would say the future of EVs and electrical grid capacity/pricing are on a certain collision course in parts of the US.
 
R P said:
That's from 2019, and just plans. So, did they do it, and where are they?
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If you look on the EA charger map there are several solar powered station that show up. These are designated by sun instead of a lighting bolt. They are not grid tied. The ones I have seen are level2 but I have not checked many only the ones near by.
 
Fastnf said:
If you look on the EA charger map there are several solar powered station that show up. These are designated by sun instead of a lighting bolt. They are not grid tied. The ones I have seen are level2 but I have not checked many only the ones near by.
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OK, if they don't have grid access and are level 2, that would make sense. I wonder if the charge cost is the same as grid tied ones, or more?

However, Bob's initial response was about battery powered L3 chargers that would be used to store electricity from the grid during low tier cost periods of time. That is what I was questioning.
 
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R P said:
OK, if they don't have grid access and are level 2, that would make sense. I wonder if the charge cost is the same as grid tied ones, or more?

However, Bob's initial response was about battery powered L3 chargers that would be used to store electricity from the grid during low tier cost periods of time. That is what I was questioning.
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I know Caltrans has installed some Solar DCFC in California. Here is a picture of one at The Camp Roberts rest stop north of Paso Robles. There is an other one East of Paso Robles. They are both listed on plug share.

481236.webp
 
My electric rate went up 0.5 cents from 4.3 cents per kwh off peak to 4.8 cents per kwh and from 17.0 cent per kwh peak to 17.5 cents per kwh. Still dirt cheap in my area but that will change very soon.. They are shutting down the largest coal/natural gas power plant and buying power from Orlando (Orlando is mostly nuclear power).. They can't buy the electricity at the price that it cost them to produce it, so our rates will go up.
 
Fastnf said:
I


I know Caltrans has installed some Solar DCFC in California. Here is a picture of one at The Camp Roberts rest stop north of Paso Robles. There is an other one East of Paso Robles. They are both listed on plug share.
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Solar DCFC is great. But are they also connected to the grid, and do they use batteries for additional electrical storage? Or do they have some kind of charge controller that can convert PV DC directly to a car's DC port?

I can see them wanting a grid tie in to get back some extra money for when cars aren't charging. Sort of like what you are doing with your home solar system.
 
R P said:
Solar DCFC is great. But are they also connected to the grid, and do they use batteries for additional electrical storage? Or do they have some kind of charge controller that can convert PV DC directly to a car's DC port?

I can see them wanting a grid tie in to get back some extra money for when cars aren't charging. Sort of like what you are doing with your home solar system.
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They are not grid tied. They are in remote locations as far as the grid is concerned. If you read the plug share comments by regular users, when the battery is low the system shuts off until the battery recharges.
 
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