Edmunds EPA range test on EVs

[Pobre]

I was just watching the recent test that Edmunds did on the EPA range on various EVs available in the market compared to the Manufacturer Advertised range. Tesla is in the hot seat as they mentioned "ALL Tesla cars" had failed to meet the EPA range. It does not seem to be biased "anti-Tesla" test but it sure seem to hit some tesla people's nerves.

On the other hand, Our cars did #4 which I think is pretty awesome. But in my situation I get about 285 real world range which is about 60%highway:40%city driving. still far from what the 315miles range that Edmunds got. I was just wondering what you guys think about this.

please click on the link to see below.

Edmunds Tested: Electric Car Range and Consumption | Edmunds

here's the you tube of Edmunds further testing Tesla's Defense.

 

[Paul DeLeon]

When my Kona was new, in 2019, I regularly got 315 to 325 miles after a full charge. Now two years and several recalls later I get 285.

 

[R P]

I was just watching the recent test that Edmunds did on the EPA range on various EVs available in the market compared to the Manufacturer Advertised range. Tesla is in the hot seat as they mentioned "ALL Tesla cars" had failed to meet the EPA range. It does not seem to be biased "anti-Tesla" test but it sure seem to hit some tesla people's nerves.

On the other hand, Our cars did #4 which I think is pretty awesome. But in my situation I get about 285 real world range which is about 60%highway:40%city driving. still far from what the 315miles range that Edmunds got. I was just wondering what you guys think about this.

please click on the link to see below.

Edmunds Tested: Electric Car Range and Consumption | Edmunds

here's the you tube of Edmunds further testing Tesla's Defense.

No surprise with this test. Tesla has consistently been getting below EPA in real world tests, while many others exceed it. Here is a fairly rigorous test from a year ago done in the UK. Numbers are different but the trend (Tesla not meeting EPA) and comparisons very similar.
https://insideevs.com/news/407807/eletric-car-real-world-range-tested/

My 2 year old Kona was consistently showing 500+ kms (310 miles) range in the summer, and worst I hit this winter was 450 kms (279). Now with spring and summer on the way, my range again is climbing back up there.

 

[Jimct]

2019 Kona, max is 275 Summer, 220-230 Winter. Almost always two of us riding. Still, overall average is above the advertised 248 so no complaints.

 

[R P]

2019 Kona, max is 275 Summer, 220-230 Winter. Almost always two of us riding. Still, overall average is above the advertised 248 so no complaints.

Mine is better in the winter than yours in the summer. What type of driving do you do, mostly hwy, or mostly city?

 

[Jimct]

Mine is better in the winter than yours in the summer. What type of driving do you do, mostly hwy, or mostly city?

About 50/50. I see in a lot of forums some do better than mine while others not quite so good. I can't explain it other than the weight difference, terrain and climate. Vancouver's year-round temps are fairly moderate, aren't they? In Summer we use AC quite a bit.

 

[R P]

About 50/50. I see in a lot of forums some do better than mine while others not quite so good. I can't explain it other than the weight difference, terrain and climate. Vancouver's year-round temps are fairly moderate, aren't they? In Summer we use AC quite a bit.

Yes, we don't get really cold in the winter or really hot in the summer. But I turn off Climate momentarily to get the max range read-out for both summer and winter. It makes about 20 or 30 kms diff. And I know how/where you drive makes a big diff. Also tire pressures, I keep mine about 3-5 psi higher than on the door.

Spring/Summer is early here this year. We had 28C (82F) yesterday, probably close to that today. Normal is quite a bit less, though. I live a little inland (about 10 kms), whereas Vancouver temps are taken at the airport which is right on the ocean. So our temps are about 5 - 10 C warmer usually. Not uncommon for us to get 35C here in the summer, so yeah, AC is used regularly.

 

[SeanH]

No surprise with this test. Tesla has consistently been getting below EPA in real world tests,

I noticed this on the Model S I drove in Jan 2016. The main GoM always assumed 3 mi/kWh... and I never, ever got that. Sure I might have been having fun mashing the pedal, but even Autopilot (1.0!) on the highway was a lot more than that.

 

[Recoil45]

No surprise with this test. Tesla has consistently been getting below EPA in real world tests, while many others exceed it. Here is a fairly rigorous test from a year ago done in the UK. Numbers are different but the trend (Tesla not meeting EPA) and comparisons very similar.
https://insideevs.com/news/407807/eletric-car-real-world-range-tested/

My 2 year old Kona was consistently showing 500+ kms (310 miles) range in the summer, and worst I hit this winter was 450 kms (279). Now with spring and summer on the way, my range again is climbing back up there.

If you look up Elon in the dictionary it redirects to Hyperbole.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Domenick]

About 50/50. I see in a lot of forums some do better than mine while others not quite so good. I can't explain it other than the weight difference, terrain and climate. Vancouver's year-round temps are fairly moderate, aren't they? In Summer we use AC quite a bit.

I've noticed in my own EV that my range varies significantly depending on how hard I accelerate, so I would chalk that up as another variable.
I saw some with the same car were getting 40% better range than I was, so I tried really hard to be gentle on the acceleration and I saw my efficiency increase by about 20%.
Now that the experiments over, I'm back to a mix. Soft when I'm driving my wife or in no particular hurry, less soft when I need to get somewhere.

 

[Scrannel]

There are two EVs on my street: my Tesla 3 Performance, and a year-old or so, E-Tron. We always wave at each other -- just like when, back in the 60's -- people discovered small sports cars. A Healey would wave at an MG, and Trumps etc. We were part of a group that had discovered really cool handling, amazingly frugal fun cars. I've noticed this absolutely dumb fracturing in EV camps. Every manufacturer has some sort of history that many people will find distasteful. Aftercall, the only reason Electrify America exists is because VW found it more economical to just lie on their pollution controls. And, one could make the argument, that without Musk, we would still be far, far behind in EV infrastructure and tech. So, why don't we all just appreciate that those of us with serious EVs are all doing a very cool thing. After all, the EPA does the EPA ratings, not Tesla nor any other manufacturer. If I see you on the road, I'll wave!

 

[Jennifer]

When my Kona was new, in 2019, I regularly got 315 to 325 miles after a full charge. Now two years and several recalls later I get 285.

Me too. When I charge to 80% now I only get about 226 miles. A big drop from the 268 I used to get at 80%.

 

[navguy12]

I was just watching the recent test that Edmunds did on the EPA range on various EVs available in the market compared to the Manufacturer Advertised range. Tesla is in the hot seat as they mentioned "ALL Tesla cars" had failed to meet the EPA range. It does not seem to be biased "anti-Tesla" test but it sure seem to hit some tesla people's nerves.

On the other hand, Our cars did #4 which I think is pretty awesome. But in my situation I get about 285 real world range which is about 60%highway:40%city driving. still far from what the 315miles range that Edmunds got. I was just wondering what you guys think about this.

please click on the link to see below.

Edmunds Tested: Electric Car Range and Consumption | Edmunds

here's the you tube of Edmunds further testing Tesla's Defense.

There may be some context here:



The two issues I have with the point Edmonds was trying to make:

Doing a constant 65 mph at random ambiant temperatures versus doing the EPA dyno test (at a specific and repeatable temperature) to determine highway range between different vehicles are two different things.

Doing tests where the ambient (and battery pac) temperature is different will nullify the results.

FWIW: my May 2018 build LR RWD TM3 has an EPA rating of 499 km (when it was delivered). I topped it up once to 100% in June of 2018 and it showed 499 km on the GOM.

Random data point: Two days ago (19 Apr 2021) I drove a total of 199 km from home to the Lee Valley store in Kingston ON and return, via (the limited access) highway 401. The trip was driven at 102 kph, on dry roads, light cross winds (both directions) and 14C as the indicated temperature. I departed at 89% SOC and arrived home with 50% SOC. If one insists on wondering what my theoretical 100% range could have been that day under those conditions, it could have been 510 km, well above my 499 km rated range.

But none of this minutia matters in real life.

After three years and countless long distance trips, I was never in any situation that would have caused me any range anxiety grief that was not solved by a six minute (yes, six minutes for winter round trip to YYZ) supercharger session.

Obviously, YMMV.

 

[Esprit1st]

FWIW: my May 2018 build LR RWD TM3 has an EPA rating of 499 km (when it was delivered). I topped it up once to 100% in June of 2018 and it showed 499 km on the GOM.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that Teslas do not have a GOM. They have a range indicator that displays the available range in correlation to the EPA range and SOC of the battery, which would explain why it displayed 499km (EPA range) at 100% SOC, which is what it always and under any circumstances will do.

 

[navguy12]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that Teslas do not have a GOM. They have a range indicator that displays the available range in correlation to the EPA range and SOC of the battery, which would explain why it displayed 499km (EPA range) at 100% SOC, which is what it always and under any circumstances will do.

You are technically correct...until the battery has some "degradation".

One can choose "% SOC" (which I run exclusively) or one can display "nnn kms".

For the display "nnn kms", I used the term "GOM" simply for this thread's reader familiarity.

If I use "nnn kms", I will not be able to drive that exact distance UNLESS I am driving it at an energy spend rate of 147 Wh/km (the EPA rated range)...as long as there is no battery "degradation"

As the battery gets older, one will see "degradation" if one charges up to 100% and then displays "nnn kms".

It will be a number less than 499 km.

I don't check my 100% rated range except once a year, in mid summer, when the battery tempurature will be similar to when I checked it when the car was new.

Based on my back of napkin math, I expect this summer that my 100% SOC will read, when I select the "display range" option, about 488 km.

So, not technically a "GOM", but the displayed range is meaningless unless one drives the trip at 147 Wh/km.

 

[Mattsburgh]

But in my situation I get about 285 real world range which is about 60%highway:40%city driving. still far from what the 315miles range that Edmunds got. I was just wondering what you guys think about this.

Keep in mind they drove it until it died, you're comparing that to your GOM at 285. That's why they got 315 miles and that's why you likely could, too, in an emergency (I wouldn't do it just to see if you could, bad for the battery). The battery isn't really 64 kWh and the Edmunds data shows this, they have 315 miles with 22.3 kWh per 100 miles. That comes out to over 70 kWh battery size.

 

[Pobre]

Doing a constant 65 mph at random ambiant temperatures versus doing the EPA dyno test (at a specific and repeatable temperature) to determine highway range between different vehicles are two different things.

Doing tests where the ambient (and battery pac) temperature is different will nullify the results.

But none of this minutia matters in real life.

After three years and countless long distance trips, I was never in any situation that would have caused me any range anxiety grief that was not solved by a six minute (yes, six minutes for winter round trip to YYZ) supercharger session.

Obviously, YMMV.

they did mentioned this on their Buffer test video...

Im not sure if a 10 degree temperature difference that Tesla owners argues will make such huge difference in range. (Mentioned 53*F on tesla 3 LR vs 61*F Kona EV) I guess since they did this in LA, they could have done the test a few more times with each set of different temperatures to get a more meaningful test curve results: i.e. testing same situation at cold weather 30*F, 50*F, 70*F, 90*F and another at above 100*F. California can possibly get these temperatures in this time of the year for this type of testing. Of course more numbers (n) of cars tested can give more significant results (for those who are familiar with Statistics). But that will be costly and rigorous to do that Edmunds may not be willing to do at this time.

but what I think their test has shown is that of all the manufacturers were tested in a similar manner and still shows more "Unbiassed" results. the test were conducted across the board in a similar way and the values they got are the ones they posted unaltered. the test for sure is not perfect but still shows some significance to potential EV buyers as Edmunds had mentioned this as a "Consumer" minded test.

the second buffer test is just to follow up with what Tesla had mentioned about the unused buffer to complete power drain. In my opinion, this test means nothing in real life as EVs are not supposed to be driven to complete power drain and this is done by Edmunds to appease Tesla.

I guess EPA range that manufacturers put out should be more like an actual "Range" like in Gas cars i.e. Gas Kona 28/33 mpg (city/highway) vs Kona EV 4.8/3.2 Miles per Kilowatt (City/Highway @ 65*F)... or an actual range like 240 miles-300 miles.

 

[navguy12]

Im not sure if a 10 degree temperature difference that Tesla owners argues will make such huge difference in range.

I am.

Rent a dyno facility for 48 hours.

Park all the vehicles inside that facility so that all vehicles battery packs are brought into balance at the same temperature.

Charge them up to 100% (where the car no longer accepts any charge) and immediately put that car on the dyno and test it.

Run all the vehicles on the exact same dyno regimen and, as you have said, down to 0% (indicated) SOC.

I guess EPA range that manufacturers put out should be more like an actual "Range" like in Gas cars i.e. Gas Kona 28/33 mpg (city/highway) vs Kona EV 4.8/3.2 Miles per Kilowatt (City/Highway @ 65*F)... or an actual range like 240 miles-300 miles.

I agree that something has to be done along this line.

When it comes to EVs, only two things matter: highway range in cold temperatures.

The rest of it is noise.

In my dream world, the EPA testing for EVs would NOT be the convoluted current test, where the highway portion speeds average out to less than 50 mph.

Instead, for EVs, the EPA test should be a simple dyno run at 0C and 100 kph down to 0% SOC indicated (versus current EPA test that runs battery down until wheels don't move).