Does Mini discourage frequent charging?

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insightman said:
I'm glad I bought my SE back in 2020, before MINI started installing batteries that failed earlier if you charged them to more than 80%. I thought the 110-mile range was just enough--88 miles wouldn't be enough.

I'd love to learn what level of MINI executives were involved in that change to the Owners Manual and how the decision was made. If MINI had changed the BMS to provide 137.5 miles of EPA range and then suggested owners should charge to 80% (110 miles range), it would all make sense to me. But I would have expected MINI to provide a BMS with an 80% charging option.

MINI certainly knew that a car that offers only 110 (or 114) miles of range would be charged fully every time. So I assumed the BMS was designed to prevent battery degradation caused by full-charging. MINI has my home address, but didn't send me an updated Owners Manual or an bulletin explaining the new 80% suggestion.

Does BMW tell customers of their BEVs to charge to 80% unless they need the full range?

It could be worse: Toyota decided owners of their bz4x BEV crossover can use DC fast-charging only 2 times in 24 hours!
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It's unclear whether your 2020 is different here, but the general unstated reason against opting for low range EVs is how quickly you go through charge cycles, a cycle being generally understood as doing a full 0-100. With a larger battery, this takes a lot less time.
Your warranty is how you should probably be measuring the expected lifespan of your vehicle's battery. If we all go in excess of that? Good for us, but it speaks to BMW's confidence level towards its product.

Another issue is we're putting a lot of stock into earlier ownership experiences from the past decade, it's safe to say these owners were severe EV enthusiasts/apologists given the limitations of their cars. Will BMW turn into another Nissan as far as replacement packs go? Who knows yet! I'm just glad we're already clear of the way Merc handled the Smart EVs and their self-destructing batteries.

The fact of the matter is, we're driving a retrofitted me-too EV that just happens to be the most fun of the bunch at a time where EVs are just becoming mainstream. You're bound to have manual updates like that come along as well as a metric ton of misinformation.
 
Warranty terms:
HIGH‐VOLTAGE LITHIUM‐ION BATTERY CAPACITY COVERAGE (MINI ELECTRIC VEHICLES)
The MINI Electric Vehicle (all-electric power) high-voltage lithium-ion battery modules are covered against excessive capacity loss for a period of 8 years/100,000 miles, whichever occurs frst. This coverage is in addition to the high-voltage lithium-ion battery’s limited warranty for defects in materials or workmanship.
Due to its inherent technical design, the high-voltage lithium-ion battery’s capacity will decrease over time and with use. If an authorized MINI dealer’s capacity check concludes that the net battery capacity is less than 70 percent of its original nominal value when it was new, this level of capacity loss is considered excessive.
During the MINI Electric Vehicle High-Voltage Lithium-Ion Battery Capacity Coverage period, MINI USA will cover the necessary component repair or replacement to correct this excessive capacity loss when performed by an authorized MINI dealer.

On the f56 forum someone said they don't have the 70% cap on wear within 8 years (which is abysmal given the range of the vehicle and losses related to highway and winter driving), but that was also false lol.

Always read the documents.

https://www.miniusa.com/content/dam/mini/PDF/warranties/2023_MINI_Warranty.pdf
 
CuriousGeorge said:
Didn't Consumer Reports just rate the 2022/2023 MINI Cooper the 3rd most reliable car, and the only non-Asian brand in the top 5? Why yes, I believe that they did
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I'm not gonna lie, the last time I kept track of these ratings was in 2013-2014. So pre current generation hardware. Having said that, I'm assuming they've been consistently there for a while, yeah? You have odd movements in rankings sometimes given this is survey-based. It's consistency that matters, like Lexus being #1 all the time or Mazda during the last decade.

I know BMW has been cleaning up overall. I mean, sheesh, they build Toyotas now. :p
 
Aprime said:
Haha don't take it too personally, the cars have a reputation for poor reliability and relatively high maintenance costs. It's nothing new. Owners used to rank service quality highly but conversely the cars were at the bottom of the list for reliability, and consistently so. Tesla is another paradox here in that they have an insane amount of repeat buying (for now), but are plagued by service complaints and quality concerns.

For Mini it was mostly powertrain stuff. Turbos, timing chains, all big ticket stuff.
Nobody's saying they're unique to Mini either, and yeah, the F56 might be better than its predecessor. Heck, there's plenty of minis in my neighbourhood from both generations. Ultimately, my car's a mix of old and new and I don't know what to expect. So far just judging from people's ownership experience, it's looking good, but the CATL prismatic battery we have is a mystery.
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I wasn't taking it personally; I just wasn't sure what you were referring to.
For what it's worth, the F56 platform the SE is built on is well-known for being reliable:
https://www.consumerreports.org/car...tisfaction/10-most-reliable-cars-a6569295379/
https://www.jdpower.com/cars/ratings/quality/2022/compact-sporty-car
 
Aprime said:
It's unclear whether your 2020 is different here, but the general unstated reason against opting for low range EVs is how quickly you go through charge cycles, a cycle being generally understood as doing a full 0-100.
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I have charged my 2021 SE to 100% almost every day, and I have over 53,500 miles on it with no signs of range degradation. My Motorer's Guide explicitly states to charge to 100%. I suspect the newer manuals are likely cut & paste from BMW documents or something. MINI recommending 80% charge is ludicrous since the SE has no way to restrict the charging.

semanualcharge.webp
 
Puppethead said:
I suspect the newer manuals are likely cut & paste from BMW documents or something.
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I don't care one way or the other, but I love a good mystery, especially one that lends itself to testing one's google-fu...are there any BMW owner's manuals out there with the same recommendations?
 
What’s odd is that I’ve always referenced the 2022 manual pasted above at the Mini website which now that I look is different than the motors guide app for the 22 which states 10-80%.
 
The Electrify app seems to indicate that the max SOC is 95.5% on my '23 SE and about 11.5% on the bottom end. For a total of 16% buffer.
240V chargers are more efficient than 120V, so it costs less to charge it up. My car came with both a 120V & a 240/120V charger. I use the 240V.
I've never worried about number of charging sessions. I keep my battery near the middle most of the time, but then let it charge to 100% a few of times a month & let it sit for a couple hours to let it rebalance / "float" the batteries. Not sure if the whole rebalance thing is real, but the SOH seems to have settled at around 96% since I started doing this.
electrify.webp
 
I'd advise anyone with a concern besides myself to contact BMW directly for clarification, as I just have. The idea that the instructions have changed YoY without any rationale provided warrants some concern.
 
Puppethead said:
I have charged my 2021 SE to 100% almost every day, and I have over 53,500 miles on it with no signs of range degradation. My Motorer's Guide explicitly states to charge to 100%. I suspect the newer manuals are likely cut & paste from BMW documents or something. MINI recommending 80% charge is ludicrous since the SE has no way to restrict the charging.

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Definitely a wording change from fully to regularly. I sent everything to BMW on my end and I really want an answer.
 

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Not that this clarifies anything, but this is the response from MINI when I asked about charging to full every night:

Thank you for contacting the MINI i Team regarding your 2023 MINI Cooper SE Hardtop 2 Door. I am happy to assist you with your charging inquiry.

Similar to your cell phone, charging up your electric MINI before a day’s use is simple. The amount of miles you drive daily will determine how much charging you will need. There is no need to charge the battery up to 100% every night, unless you have to rely on the entire driving range of your vehicle. Staying between 20% to 80% battery capacity should leave you with enough driving miles.

All MINI's have a preconditioning function, which allows you to further optimize battery efficiency. From the MINI Connected App, you can precondition your vehicle, which warms up both the cabin and the battery. The vehicle should be plugged in while preconditioning. When not driving your electric MINI for a week or more at a time, leave the battery between 20% and 80% charged.

Keep in mind that how often and how long you should charge your electric MINI depends in part on what kind of home charging option you have and your daily driving needs. If you have convenient access to workplace charging, that may also impact whether you choose to charge your electric MINI fully every night.

For technical information beyond what I have provided, I suggest speaking to your authorized MINI center. They have the expertise and are eager to share their knowledge. Should you need to access a list of our authorized MINI centers, please visit our website at: https://www.miniusa.com/, and select “Dealers and Inventory.”
 
beerhecht said:
Not that this clarifies anything, but this is the response from MINI when I asked about charging to full every night:

Thank you for contacting the MINI i Team regarding your 2023 MINI Cooper SE Hardtop 2 Door. I am happy to assist you with your charging inquiry.

Similar to your cell phone, charging up your electric MINI before a day’s use is simple. The amount of miles you drive daily will determine how much charging you will need. There is no need to charge the battery up to 100% every night, unless you have to rely on the entire driving range of your vehicle. Staying between 20% to 80% battery capacity should leave you with enough driving miles.

All MINI's have a preconditioning function, which allows you to further optimize battery efficiency. From the MINI Connected App, you can precondition your vehicle, which warms up both the cabin and the battery. The vehicle should be plugged in while preconditioning. When not driving your electric MINI for a week or more at a time, leave the battery between 20% and 80% charged.

Keep in mind that how often and how long you should charge your electric MINI depends in part on what kind of home charging option you have and your daily driving needs. If you have convenient access to workplace charging, that may also impact whether you choose to charge your electric MINI fully every night.

For technical information beyond what I have provided, I suggest speaking to your authorized MINI center. They have the expertise and are eager to share their knowledge. Should you need to access a list of our authorized MINI centers, please visit our website at: https://www.miniusa.com/, and select “Dealers and Inventory.”
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Well that settles it
 
Lol yeah, without explaining how to charge to 80% without doing math and jumping through hoops. Ridiculous.
 
beerhecht said:
From the MINI Connected App, you can precondition your vehicle, which warms up both the cabin and the battery.
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Not that I'm untrusting, but the language on preconditioning in the manual is suspiciously careful to not mention the battery; only the car's interior.
 
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