Daily commute

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Carsten Haase said:
I still don't know about that ABC... I doubt it came from engineering, it definitely doesn't sound like something an engineer would say! I think it came from marketing to avoid discussion about further limiting the already small range (and the additional degradation from ABC was acceptable to the bean counters).
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I don't agree with this. I asked my technical advisor when I got my SE, and he said it's safe to charge as often as I like, even DC fast charging. The batteries have 100,000 warranty (80% drop), so I'm not worried. And the experience of Tesla owners is that even after many years the range degradation is minimal. And the reality is most people will replace the car before hitting 100,000 miles (I might hit it, though, considering I drive over 20,000 per year :)).
 
chrunck said:
It tops out at 7.4kw, which at 240v is around 30 amps.

What article did you read that said to charge less frequently? I've been charging every day, but could probably make it all week without charging. Longer charges are more efficient, but I would think topping off every day would be better for the battery.
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Thanks for the correction. Yes. I could have saved some money by buying a 32 amp unit. My 48 amp unit can charge at 11.5kw.
 
I agree, the Mini battery has a large top buffer, is thermally managed and frankly with an 8yr warranty that guarantees 70% range we should be fine.
Now, if 70% is not enough for your daily needs, then I’d suggest the car is on the limits of practicality when new really, but in any case you don’t need to worry about it for 8 years.
 
my daily commute is about 70 miles round trip. colder days the GOM % is at about 35-40% left each day.. warmer days it shows 50% left or so.. but my commute isn't entirely flat i have uphill and downhill from the highway. i plugged into my level 2 every night. it started to charge around 4am and ends at 630am and starts to warm the cabin by 7am. 100% every morning to start!
 
Puppethead said:
I don't agree with this. I asked my technical advisor when I got my SE, and he said it's safe to charge as often as I like, even DC fast charging. The batteries have 100,000 warranty (80% drop), so I'm not worried. And the experience of Tesla owners is that even after many years the range degradation is minimal. And the reality is most people will replace the car before hitting 100,000 miles (I might hit it, though, considering I drive over 20,000 per year :)).
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Not worried is good (I'm not either) but your technical advisor is full of it (unless they meant safe as in not going to catch on fire!)

Here's an example of fleet data from 6000 EVs that clearly shows DC charging results in ~10% more degradation over 4 years:
ev-battery-SOH-vs-time-DCFC-updated.webp
 
So here's my sobering Fiat 500e story for what its worth. Bought used at 30kmi. Rated 83 mile range was not more than 75mi despite my moderate hyper-miling. Always filled to 100% not realizing the consequences. Later found that the battery capacity was available through the OBDii like port and over the last 3 years plotted the degradation. Shockingly, it was about 10% per year when I started plotting with consistent 100% charges but is now more like 2.5% per year now that I try to keep it in the 50% range whenever possible & out of the So Cal sun. How much of that is just the battery degradation curve vs my charging behavior is up for debate.
I've heard that the i3 battery packs were similar to the 500e's but very different from the SE's. I'm guessing the SE has a better cooling system than the 500e's as well, but I still plan to be gentle with the SE when it arrives. Hoping that the white silver paint absorbs less sun related heat as well.
From what I have heard, Chrysler/Fiat refused to replace 500e batteries that got below 70% in 8 years as they considered it to be normal degradation. However, there are certainly numerous stories where Leaf batteries were replaced under the same conditions
 
I usually keep my cars for 12 or 13 years. I plan on keeping my SE for even longer. I see no reason to sell it. It would be great even as a third car for friends and family visiting me. Plus the classic look of a Mini will always put a smile on most people's faces. With that being said, I'll do what I can to keep the battery degradation to a minimal by charging less frequent.
 
Puppethead said:
I don't agree with this. I asked my technical advisor when I got my SE, and he said it's safe to charge as often as I like, even DC fast charging. The batteries have 100,000 warranty (80% drop), so I'm not worried. And the experience of Tesla owners is that even after many years the range degradation is minimal. And the reality is most people will replace the car before hitting 100,000 miles (I might hit it, though, considering I drive over 20,000 per year :)).
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What car market is going to do with EV with 100000 miles EV’s in a future I hope privet market adjust and have a way to replace those dying batteries bc those cars still will be useful just batteries have to be replaced
 
Ketos said:
I usually keep my cars for 12 or 13 years. I plan on keeping my SE for even longer. I see no reason to sell it. It would be great even as a third car for friends and family visiting me. Plus the classic look of a Mini will always put a smile on most people's faces. With that being said, I'll do what I can to keep the battery degradation to a minimal by charging less frequent.
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My 2014 bmw I 3 with 60 ah battery faster than all I 3 up to date and SE too ….not like SE with 94 ah battery in November 2021 was still doing 75 miles being 7 1/2 years old but car have 21000 miles only and keep in a garage at 60 ‘ temperature SOLD /missing my BMW and replace with SE 2022
 
Rexsio said:
My 2014 bmw I 3 with 60 ah battery faster than all I 3 up to date and SE too ….not like SE with 94 ah battery in November 2021 was still doing 75 miles being 7 1/2 years old but car have 21000 miles only and keep in a garage at 60 ‘ temperature SOLD /missing my BMW and replace with SE 2022
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Do you miss your lightweight i3 or is your SE with it's actual automobile wheels and tires more fun to drive?
 
Carsten Haase said:
Here's an example of fleet data from 6000 EVs that clearly shows DC charging results in ~10% more degradation over 4 years:
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"Exclusively operating in hot climates" seems a bit specific, and even so still less than 20% degradation over four years. MINI has put in enough buffering so we don't have to sweat the 80% maximum charge like Tesla owners. I'm not going to worry, my car will be paid off before the battery fails, so I'll enjoy it while I own it.
 
Darrell Hayes said:
So here's my sobering Fiat 500e story for what its worth.
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The 500e should be considered a "first generation" BEV, with poor battery management. Early Leafs are the same, not sure about current generation. The SE reaped the benefits of years of BMW i3 real-world use, so hopefully it will be more durable.
 
Hot weather degrades the battery more quickly.
DC fast charging degrades the battery more quickly.
Charge cycles degrade the battery.
Time degrades the battery.

Charging to 100% degrades the battery more quickly unless the car has a big top buffer so you’re nowhere near the true 100%.

I suspect Mini know full well that asking owners if chief range EVs to only charge to 80% is just not realistic, the cars are a hard enough sell as it is. To cover themselves warranty wise they put a big top buffer in that is dynamic and over time the buffer is reduced to keep usable capacity up. That way they can make it last 8 years with at least 70% real world range.
My tests for our use case show the car has far more than 114 miles of range. Day to day my wife gets the equivalent of 140-150. 70% of that is still at least 100 miles so the car will meet our needs past 8 years. While we will keep the car as long as she wants, if the day comes that we need more miles in a regular day than it can do then we’ll sell it. We paid less than $23k for it with taxes and charge for free, so if in 10 years we only get $3k for it that means it cost us $160 or so per month. Including the “fuel”. Bargain.
 
Puppethead said:
Isn't this a function of how much heat is created? The SE's low 50 kW DC fast charging seems like it would be a lot less stressful on batteries than Tesla's 250-300 kW supercharging.
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True, however you’re putting 50kW into a third as many cells worth of batteries as a 150kW charge in a long range EV so it’s probably a wash…
The charge rate they allow seems to go up with battery size probably for that reason?
 
AndysComputer said:
True, however you’re putting 50kW into a third as many cells worth of batteries as a 150kW charge in a long range EV so it’s probably a wash…
The charge rate they allow seems to go up with battery size probably for that reason?
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I plan to only use DC for 10 minute top ups maybe once a week. Would you say the harm to the battery would be quite minimal in that use case?


Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
 
simplex123 said:
I plan to only use DC for 10 minute top ups maybe once a week. Would you say the harm to the battery would be quite minimal in that use case?

Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
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I think so. 10 minutes will give you just over 20% worth of charge and I can’t see the heat saturating anything in that time. It’s 1/5th of a cycle. 10 cycles per year if you think about it which isn’t much. I can’t imagine it will have any noticeable contribution to your degradation.
 
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