Competition is coming ... again

bwilson4web

bwilson4web

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Crying "Wolf" again:

Source: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/germany-detroit-already-own-teslas-063010554.html

...
The traditional industry giants of Germany and Detroit, such as Volkswagen and General Motors Co., must be hugely frustrated by the market’s favoring of Elon Musk and his upstart peers. Tesla has impressive software and battery technology, but others know how to build a decent electric vehicle now. Established carmakers are spending tens of billions of dollars on doing exactly this; they just aren’t very good at getting credit for it. Some environmentally focused investors refuse to ignore the fact that the incumbents still make lots of gas-guzzling SUVs.
...​

Looking at the inventory at the local dealers, there are slim pickings. Perhaps they just choose to not sell what "others know how to build a decent electric vehicle."

Bob Wilson
 
Yep, if Tesla could finally address manufacturing processes so that fit and finish are no longer such a big deal, they would be there.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
 
Well, two issues:
- others "know" how to build decent. Yes, they know, so GET TO IT!
- dealers: they need to WANT to sell EVs

These two issues need to be resolved first, only then there will be a real competition.

Look at China, and their EV adoption. The Chinese car companies are selling lots of EVs. But they do it only in China.
 
Esprit1st said:
Well, two issues:
- others "know" how to build decent. Yes, they know, so GET TO IT!
- dealers: they need to WANT to sell EVs

These two issues need to be resolved first, only then there will be a real competition.
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Dealers generally make very little money on the sale of a new vehicle. Their profit centers are Service, F&I and often used car sales. Selling an EV over an ICE entails a lot less business for their service department, and also less chance to sell a maintenance plan in F&I.
 
The fundamental issue with all EVs is the cost of the battery (vehicle) and fast charging locations. At present this is still a limiting factor in market penetration. Tesla has a huge advantage over other automotive manufacturers in that Elon Musk correctly decided to invest in a proprietary fast charging network. The Tesla Model 3 does not come with "free" charging. Thus, Tesla now has a revenue stream from its charging network. Tesla also makes money from pollution offsets in Europe. Tesla's stock value is based on future potential growth.

A Tesla is outside of my price range. I just checked and a plain Jane Model 3 Long Range Dual Motor All-Wheel Drive is $46,990 before taxes. Any paint color, other than white, is $1,000 to $2,000 extra. There is also a $1,200 delivery/document fee. The price is Not negotiable. For a blue one, that comes to $49,190 before taxes. My Clarity cost under $30,000, after taking into account the $7,500 Federal tax credit. I cannot justify spending $50,000 on a new car.
 
DucRider said:
Dealers generally make very little money on the sale of a new vehicle. Their profit centers are Service, F&I and often used car sales. Selling an EV over an ICE entails a lot less business for their service department, and also less chance to sell a maintenance plan in F&I.
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Umm, even with an ICE vehicle, I don't go their service department, except for recalls and warranty service. So, I guess they do make money on the warranty service with me, because the manufacturer reimburses them, but really I try to buy reliable cars to where the service center isn't needed, so all in all, it doesn't matter if it is an ICE or EV, they don't really make money off of me.
 
DaleL said:
The fundamental issue with all EVs is the cost of the battery (vehicle) and fast charging locations. At present this is still a limiting factor in market penetration. Tesla has a huge advantage over other automotive manufacturers in that Elon Musk correctly decided to invest in a proprietary fast charging network. The Tesla Model 3 does not come with "free" charging. Thus, Tesla now has a revenue stream from its charging network. Tesla also makes money from pollution offsets in Europe. Tesla's stock value is based on future potential growth.

A Tesla is outside of my price range. I just checked and a plain Jane Model 3 Long Range Dual Motor All-Wheel Drive is $46,990 before taxes. Any paint color, other than white, is $1,000 to $2,000 extra. There is also a $1,200 delivery/document fee. The price is Not negotiable. For a blue one, that comes to $49,190 before taxes. My Clarity cost under $30,000, after taking into account the $7,500 Federal tax credit. I cannot justify spending $50,000 on a new car.
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From what I have been reading, Musk is considering converting at least some of the Superchargers into high powered DC quick charging stations and allowing others to use them for a fee.

But really, I have done a lot of looking and there are pretty much only five states where there is a lack of quick charging now:
  • Montana
  • Wyoming
  • South Dakota
  • North Dakota
  • Alaska
Tesla does have more superchargers in these states, other than that, things are pretty decent and considering EvGo has promised so many new charging stations, this shouldn't be an issue for long.
 
I bought my Standard Range Plus Model 3 on March 26, 2019:
  • $41,000 list price ($18,950 after purchase)
    • Got $18,300 trade-in for 2017 Prius Prime
    • Got $3,750 Federal EV Tax Credit (and had enough tax liability to use it all)
  • $37,990 replacement cost today
    • At 24kWh/100 mi, the most efficient EV in EPA list
A new SuperCharger is going in at Ozark AR that completes a fast DC charger route between Huntsville AL and Coffeyville KS where Mom lives. If I drive straight through, $24.50. If we stay overnight in Robinsonville, $21.00 not counting motel lodging, free breakfast, and free charging.

Bob Wilson
 
bwilson4web said:
I bought my Standard Range Plus Model 3 on March 26, 2019:
  • $41,000 list price ($18,950 after purchase)
    • Got $18,300 trade-in for 2017 Prius Prime
    • Got $3,750 Federal EV Tax Credit (and had enough tax liability to use it all)
  • $37,990 replacement cost today
    • At 24kWh/100 mi, the most efficient EV in EPA list
A new SuperCharger is going in at Ozark AR that completes a fast DC charger route between Huntsville AL and Coffeyville KS where Mom lives. If I drive straight through, $24.50. If we stay overnight in Robinsonville, $21.00 not counting motel lodging, free breakfast, and free charging.

Bob Wilson
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You can't really count trade on value against our base price, as you could have got that with any vehicle purchase.
 
cmwade77 said:
You can't really count trade on value against our base price, as you could have got that with any vehicle purchase.
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Nonsense. I only had to finance, my out of pocket cost, $18,950. Later I would sell some TSLA stock and pay off the remaining loan in October 2019.

Bob Wilson
 
cmwade77 said:
With a Kona would have been less out of pocket, as it starts off cheaper.
Click to expand...
Except I have a 2014 BMW i3-REx and soon learned the importance of the charging network. You don't buy just a car. So benchmarks revealed:
HSV_Manchester_Nash_HSV_010.jpg

  • Electrify America and EVgo miles are 4x the cost of gas miles
In contrast, my Standard Range Plus Model 3:
  • $3.50/100 miles on a day trip
  • $3.00/100 miles if staying overnight in a motel with free breakfast and charging
Buying an EV means also buying into an EV charging network. The Tesla is substantially more affordable!

Bob Wilson
 
Umm, with Electrify America, I pay about $2.50 for 100 miles and EvGo is about $1 for 100 miles by signing up for the appropriate plan. EvGo is $0.19 per minute for up to 350kw charging, so I tend to prefer them. And soon EVpassport will be offering unlimited charging for $39 per month. Of course there are also plenty of free quick chargers as well.

Tesla supercharging is substantially higher than what I pay.
 
cmwade77 said:
Umm, with Electrify America, I pay about $2.50 for 100 miles and EvGo is about $1 for 100 miles by signing up for the appropriate plan.
Click to expand...
With Tesla SuperChargers, I don't have to commit to a monthly fee. Access comes with the car.

Talking about access, a new SuperCharger is coming to western Arkansas which completes a fast DC charging route to Mom's place in Coffeyville KS:
https://supercharge.info/map

Bob Wilson
 
cmwade77 said:
I have no monthly fee with either plan either, EVpassport will be monthly, but that is another story.
Click to expand...
Actually, this does a great job of compare-and-contrast:
  • some prefer myopic view of one narrow point of view
  • some prefer the whole picture that incorporates all elements (the Tesla approach)
We have different 'cognitive styles' which fail to persuade the other. 'Go with God' (Matthew 10:29).

Bob Wilson
 
bwilson4web said:
Actually, this does a great job of compare-and-contrast:
  • some prefer myopic view of one narrow point of view
  • some prefer the whole picture that incorporates all elements (the Tesla approach)
We have different 'cognitive styles' which fail to persuade the other. 'Go with God' (Matthew 10:29).

Bob Wilson
Click to expand...
Actually, do take the whole point of view, the total cost of ownership for a Tesla is about triple that of the Kona. Additionally, the Tesla gets fewer miles per kWH than the Kona. Not to mention I don't have to deal with a touch screen/voicefvoice control for basic things like changing windshield wiper intervals. I don't have to deal with automatic over the air updates that can brick the car, features being removed remotely, etc. The quality of manufacturing is far better in the Kona than a Tesla. I have physical locks that I can unlock and not get stuck inside the car like I have seen many reports of with Tesla. I don't have to deal with autopilot nonsense. I don't have to pop out door handles to open the door. I don't need special adapters.to.use standard charging stations. The list goes on and on.

So you are indeed correct, some prefer a narrow view, thinking Tesla.is.somehow better while I prefer the overall view.

But no matter what, more EVs on the road is a good thing, but don't think the Tesla is all it is cracked up to be without fully researching the alternatives.

Also, the Kona is substantially.more.comfortable (for me) than any of the Teslas, but that is subjective and everyone will be different.
 
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That's why there is so many car manufacturers out there. Different cars for different people. In the end, all that matters is that more people drive an EV. Which one, who cares ... [emoji106]
 
And yes, I might be a bit defensive of my Kona, as it quite literally saved my life today by helping me avoid an out of control semi crashing through the concrete barrier on the freeway with its safety features.
 
Sorry, I was watching:


If you like your EV ride, fine. As long as it meets your requirements, good. Otherwise, I'll take my Tesla approach.

Bob Wilson
 
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