Cold weather behaviour and observations

[dnb]

the US model has power seats

Btw the power seats is a Touring thing not just US. US basic doesn't have power seats.

I'm not sure if they all have the battery warmer or not or if that is Canada thing only

 

[insightman]

Power seats: US Touring only. Battery warmer: Canadian Claritys only.

 

[amy2421]

...when the charge cable is connected after a full charge (which makes sense as charging heats up the battery so you'd need the warmer only after the battery is full)...

I didn't think to look outside the car for a battery warmer indicator. Thanks for pointing that out.
So if I want to know if my Canadian Clarity's battery heating system is running I have to:

1. Stand in the Canadian-level cold outside my Clarity when it's about to finish charging
2. Watch carefully to note when the green LED goes out to indicate the battery is fully charged
3. Make sure I don't blink and miss when the LED goes out so I can notice it re-lighting
4. Watch for the re-lit LED to stay on for a few seconds, go out, and then blink once
5. Go back into the house and warm up so my frozen hands can grip the unheated steering wheel

The sequence Honda describes makes me wonder, does the battery heating system come on only after the battery is fully charged? Or is there just no way for the Clarity to tell you that the battery heating system is running if the battery is not fully charged?

Your Canadian owner sequence made me LOL

See Rich's quote above re: battery warming only after fully charged..

 

[Atkinson]

Anyone notice more engine noise in cold weather?
Temps have been around 20 degrees F this week and I can really hear the engine.
Not sure if it's just me or my hearing is improving or I'm listening more closely.
Yesterday on the highway was the first time I noticed regen chevrons flashing and also lockup clutch did not engage.
Both returned to normal within the first 50 miles.
I don't usually use the ACC and it was kind or erratic on the gas and brakes, so maybe the heavier demand on power combined with cold had an effect.
I typically drive like an old guy from Florida, the only thing I'm missing is the hat with a feather in the band.

 

[insightman]

Rich's quote: ...when the charge cable is connected after a full charge (which makes sense as charging heats up the battery so you'd need the warmer only after the battery is full)...

It makes sense that the battery warmer isn't needed during charging, but you still have to go through the cold LED watch to determine if it's running after charging is complete. Is the battery warmer not available when the Clarity is unplugged?

If the battery warmer requires the car to be plugged in, then it's possible that you'd venture out in -30 degree C weather after warming your battery in your garage and then find yourself unable to restart your Clarity after it cooled down while you were buying your Lotto ticket. That would be bad.

 

[V8Power]

I didn't think to look outside the car for a battery warmer indicator. Thanks for pointing that out.
So if I want to know if my Canadian Clarity's battery heating system is running I have to:

1. Stand in the Canadian-level cold outside my Clarity when it's about to finish charging
2. Watch carefully to note when the green LED goes out to indicate the battery is fully charged
3. Make sure I don't blink and miss when the LED goes out so I can notice it re-lighting
4. Watch for the re-lit LED to stay on for a few seconds, go out, and then blink once
5. Go back into the house and warm up so my frozen hands can grip the unheated steering wheel

The sequence Honda describes makes me wonder, does the battery heating system come on only after the battery is fully charged? Or is there just no way for the Clarity to tell you that the battery heating system is running if the battery is not fully charged?

When the car is at home I just leave it plugged in and let the car do its thing...charge & keep the battery warm as it sees fit. When it gets really cold, I'll take a look at the JuiceBox Pro charge logs and share anything interesting that I observe. Hope it isn't a big problem when the car is left outside without plug-in access like at my work...

 

[jdonalds]

The car did a full charge this evening. EV Range is now estimated to be 37 miles (59km), the lowest I've seen and we did own the car since December 5 last year so we've been through a winter. No big deal though because our trips tend to be 25 to 30 miles. I'm so glad we didn't buy one of the other PHEV cars that is only rated at 25-30 miles.

Ambient temperature today was in the high 40s to 50F (10C) during the charge.

 

[RichL]

It makes sense that the battery warmer isn't needed during charging, but you still have to go through the cold LED watch to determine if it's running after charging is complete. Is the battery warmer not available when the Clarity is unplugged?

If the battery warmer requires the car to be plugged in, then it's possible that you'd venture out in -30 degree C weather after warming your battery in your garage and then find yourself unable to restart your Clarity after it cooled down while you were buying your Lotto ticket. That would be bad.

For the Canadian model, Honda recommends the following:

So if you go out on a -30C day and intend to park outside, you need to plug into a charger (tops up the battery then the AC source is used to run the battery warmer) otherwise, run the risk of the battery being too to start the car as the warmer will not draw on the battery to keep it warm.

Personally, I don't have problem as my garage is attached and I have indoor parking at work however, I do feel for our U.S. friends from the northern states who don't have the warmer.

 

[insightman]

Thank you for finding what I missed in the manual. It appears the battery warmer draws so much juice that it isn't feasible to have the battery warm itself when plugging in isn't an option.

Fortunately, the record low temperature in Ann Arbor was -22 F (-30 C) back in 1994, before all those dirty, non-hybrid cars shifted global warming into high gear. So I'm confident we'll be able to drive our Clarity PHEV year-round without the assistance of a battery warmer.

 

[amy2421]

I think there was an indication on HondaLink when the battery warmer was active the other night. Also my car was plugged in when the battery warmer activated, there were two tiny little blips of power draw (seen on the ChargePoint app). It was a very small amount so I'm surprised that it won't activate when the car is not plugged in.

 

[Vezz66]

It makes sense that the battery warmer isn't needed during charging, but you still have to go through the cold LED watch to determine if it's running after charging is complete. Is the battery warmer not available when the Clarity is unplugged?

If the battery warmer requires the car to be plugged in, then it's possible that you'd venture out in -30 degree C weather after warming your battery in your garage and then find yourself unable to restart your Clarity after it cooled down while you were buying your Lotto ticket. That would be bad.

I expect it would take some time for the battery temp to fall enough to affect ability to start. And what happens at -32C remains to be seen.

Yesterday evening started the car at -9C/16F after being unplugged for 4 hours, was still full EV.

Left it unplugged for the overnight -14C/7F, started it this morning and the ICE came on right away.

Now showing all time low estimate of 48km/30 miles.

 

[leehoewonek]

I'm sure our Ottawa winter will provide me with a chance to leave the Clarity parked outside all day at -25C, with no plug available, so we'll see what happens then.

 

[jorgie393]

I have been collecting some data on how much energy the preconditioning consumes in 30 minutes. Presumably this is mostly energy that the traction battery would have to supply if I drove away "cold", and preconditioning therefore extends EV range.

The full data set is boring, but it is even more temperature-sensitive than I thought:

When I charge in my garage, with a starting internal temperature in the mid to high 50s, the preconditioning pulls a total of about 0.3 kWH during the 30 minutes. Most of that is a few full-tilt minutes (6 kW, on my ChargePoint level 2) then it tapers down to 100W or so. No big deal.

A few times I've parked outside but run the EVSE cord under the garage door. With a starting internal temperature in the 20s or high teens, the car gulps 2.3kWH or so in 30 minutes! Runs nearly full tilt for 10-15 minutes (6-7 kW), then tapers down but still running at 3kW or so all the way to the end of the 30 min preconditioning. Car finishes in mid-70s internal temperature. (I left the heat blasting for this test when I turned car off, but I'm not sure if the preconditioning uses the existing settings or defaults to auto temperature in some way).

Some thoughts on this:

--That 2.3 kWH would be a big range bite if it all came from the traction battery.
--These numbers are big. 120V EVSEs won't be able to pack that much energy into the car during the 30 min--max 0.7 kWH or so.
--The carbon "price" and simple economics of the ICE vs electric become complicated when it's cold. Using preconditioning at all is just burning fuel somewhere, & money locally, to generate electricity to then generate waste heat to warm the car. The ICE (HV mode) is carbon-messy and more costly, but generates all that glorious waste heat without needing to burn extra fuel. I won't pretend to do the calculations, but when car is very cold, certainly that narrows the gap between the ICE and running EV only.

 

[V8Power]

Thanks for the data @jorgie393!

 

[Steven B]

For anyone who has found their Clarity would not start due to low temps, I am wondering if you could follow this "Maintenance Mode" procedure to turn on the engine, warm the battery and possibly get the vehicle moving sooner? This was posted at this link by @craze1cars
http://www.insideevsforum.com/community/index.php?threads/diy-oil-change-completed.3780

1. Push start button twice WITHOUT touching brake to turn ignition on and Park symbol lights up in red.
2. Press brake, pump gas pedal to floor twice and release.
3. Press brake, shift to neutral.
4. Release brake, pump gas pedal twice.
5. Press brake, shift to Park.
6. Release brake, pump gas pedal twice. Dash will now say "maintenance mode."
7. Press brake, push start button once. Engine will start and idle.

To cancel this "mode", power off the car.

If you try this and it works to warm the battery without needing the plug, let us know. I doubt I'd ever have this vehicle in the minus range that far, but it would be handy to know if it happened.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

Our battery was showing zero EV miles remaining (as planned) when we turned into our driveway yesterday afternoon after running errands that exceeded EV range and taking it out of HV about 6 miles from home with 6 EV miles remaining. Plugged in and apparently we had a full charge at around 3:14A:

Temperature this morning is 42ºF, which is probably close to last night's low.

Anyway, a little disappointed that 41 miles EV range is so much less than the 48 miles specified by Honda. But from this thread can I assume its fairly typical?

As an aside, I know cabin preconditioning is not supposed to work when plugged into 120v, but yesterday it seemed to when we tried it. Was that because with a full battery, even though we were plugged in, we were not actually charging?

 

[Richard_arch74]

Our battery was showing zero EV miles remaining (as planned) when we turned into our driveway yesterday afternoon after running errands that exceeded EV range and taking it out of HV about 6 miles from home with 6 EV miles remaining. Plugged in and apparently we had a full charge at around 3:14A:

Temperature this morning is 42ºF, which is probably close to last night's low.

Anyway, a little disappointed that 41 miles EV range is so much less than the 48 miles specified by Honda. But from this thread can I assume its fairly typical?

As an aside, I know cabin preconditioning is not supposed to work when plugged into 120v, but yesterday it seemed to when we tried it. Was that because with a full battery, even though we were plugged in, we were not actually charging?

@Fast Eddie B, Not sure where you got information that PC'ing doesn't work on L1 charging, but it/they were incorrect. You can PC on L1 provided that:
1. Car is plugged into L1.
2. Car is not currently charging. (If the car is charging just stop charging with the HondaLink app)
3. Using the key fob or HL app, turn PC'ing on.

The PC'ing will heat the cabin for up to 30 minutes with the car charging again (car starts to charge again when you turn on PC'ing). The SOC of the battery will remain the same during PC'ing.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Inside EVs mobile app

 

[DucRider]

Temperature this morning is 42ºF, which is probably close to last night's low.

Anyway, a little disappointed that 41 miles EV range is so much less than the 48 miles specified by Honda. But from this thread can I assume its fairly typical?

The range numbers quoted by Honda are derived from standardized tests conducted in a lab under controlled conditions. They are essentially an average that the consumer can expect. In mild weather they can be easily exceeded, in cooler temps the range will be much less. Driving style and speed also will move the needle up or down.

This infographic is a nice snapshot that can help many understand the impact of cold weather and the factors that influence it:

They also have a webinar with more detail for those interested:
http://www.fleetcarma.com/resources/the-truth-about-electric-vehicles-in-cold-weather-webinar/

 

[Fast Eddie B]

Thanks, guys! Wading in here is like drinking from the proverbial firehose!

That webinar will be on my short list of things to watch!

 

[Bravo1231]

I have a US model Clarity and I am noticing issues with charging in cold weather. I am seeing my charging speed reduced to 1.2 kw with an outside temp of 14F. Anyone else noticing this?