Clarity Value for MPG

[Dan Albrich]

It's interesting to me when I see folks compute the break even point for gas vs. electric. And yes, folks use the Clarity's hybrid MPG in the calculation which is unusually good for gas-mode. My own value appreciation is a bit different. For example, while the Clarity really does get 40-44 or miles per gallon, my last car (Subaru Outback was ~22mpg) or literally half the mileage of a Clarity driven in town.

So for example when I get a full charge and temperature permits me to go say 44 miles, I think of it has two gallons of gas-- since acquiring the Clarity, I can now do 44 miles one one gallon of gas but in terms of the car's MPG value that's what I count. i.e. not Clarity gas vs. Clarity electric, but Clarity vs. my old car.

So yeah, I guess I see the electric range and MPG as being about twice as valuable to me in terms of my cost pre-Clarity and post-Clarity.

Also where I live in Oregon, one can consistently take the national average price for gas, and add between $.50 and $1.00 to get our cost. At the moment it's unusually low at $2.65/gal but those prices tend not to hold. And our electric rates are reasonable (about 11 cents KWH).

In my case, my work also offers some free electric chargers (which aren't conveniently located but I do use them occasionally).

Anyway, fully delighted with car. It has definitely had a good impact on my transportation cost. Some of the advantage would be had with any Hybrid, but with the federal and state rebates make the Clarity is as cheap as any quality Hybrid, and with plugin for commuting saves more money (at least in places where electric is cheaper than gas).

-Dan

 

[JustAnotherPoorDriver]

I was driving a Forester before and also getting low 20s, but while I am tracking that mileage difference, the one that counts for me is the mileage of the car I would have bought instead: which would probably have been the new RAV4 hybrid. Thus the electric range (which is zero cost for me because of similar free charging from my employer) is the big differentiator since the Rav4 mileage is pretty close

 

[The Gadgeteer]

It's interesting to me when I see folks compute the break even point for gas vs. electric. And yes, folks use the Clarity's hybrid MPG in the calculation which is unusually good for gas-mode. My own value appreciation is a bit different. For example, while the Clarity really does get 40-44 or miles per gallon, my last car (Subaru Outback was ~22mpg) or literally half the mileage of a Clarity driven in town.

So for example when I get a full charge and temperature permits me to go say 44 miles, I think of it has two gallons of gas-- since acquiring the Clarity, I can now do 44 miles one one gallon of gas but in terms of the car's MPG value that's what I count. i.e. not Clarity gas vs. Clarity electric, but Clarity vs. my old car.

So yeah, I guess I see the electric range and MPG as being about twice as valuable to me in terms of my cost pre-Clarity and post-Clarity.

Also where I live in Oregon, one can consistently take the national average price for gas, and add between $.50 and $1.00 to get our cost. At the moment it's unusually low at $2.65/gal but those prices tend not to hold. And our electric rates are reasonable (about 11 cents KWH).

In my case, my work also offers some free electric chargers (which aren't conveniently located but I do use them occasionally).

Anyway, fully delighted with car. It has definitely had a good impact on my transportation cost. Some of the advantage would be had with any Hybrid, but with the federal and state rebates make the Clarity is as cheap as any quality Hybrid, and with plugin for commuting saves more money (at least in places where electric is cheaper than gas).

-Dan

At 0.11/KW for a 14KW charge which only costs $1.54 I understand your point of view because charging will always be cheaper than gasoline.

I pay ~0.17/KW which is $2.38 for 14KW charge. For me gas prices vary greatly but I can easily get top tier regular octane gas for less than $2.30. So while the difference is small in my case I still ask myself do I want to pay more or less. For me it is about even so I usually do charge just for the convenience. For others the difference might be greater and it really is a choice between wasting money or not to go the same distance now that the very sizable investment has been made.

On a personal note I plan on getting solar someday and I am hopeful of being able to charge part time at work either for free or cheap in the foreseeable future. It is my belief that the auto industry will polarize to efficient gasoline based vehicles and all electric based. I believe Plug-in Hybrids with respectable electric range like the Volt and Clarity are passing endevours that the auto industry cannot reasonablely cost justify without government mandates and incentives that will go away. This is why I got my Clarity while I can because I want both gas and electric in one vehicle. Personally I like the size and form factor of my leased 2016 CRV. Unfortunately that CRV lease ends in May so I will be left without high ground clearance, without AWD, and without the ability to haul my much. The joy of being environmental and saving money will hopefully make up for it. Only time will tell how the Clarity will fit my lifestyle and needs. I drive 18K miles a year.

 

[MNSteve]

I pay ~0.17/KW which is $2.38 for 14KW charge. For me gas prices vary greatly but I can easily get top tier regular octane gas for less than $2.30. So while the difference is small in my case I still ask myself do I want to pay more or less. For me it is about even so I usually do charge just for the convenience. For others the difference might be greater and it really is a choice between wasting money or not to go the same distance now that the very sizable investment has been made.

For me the cost is a factor but frankly not the most important one. My electric rate is low, and right now the cost of gas is also low but that seems to change with the wind. It is cheaper for me to run on electricity, but not by a lot.

The two factors that are more important to me than cost are environmental and driving pleasure.

One of the reasons I bought this car is that I feel that our US society needs to actually DO something relative to climate change, and this is my personal tiny contribution. It's a question of putting my money where my mouth is. I hope that I am setting an example that might have at least a little effect in this land of huge gasoline-burning vehicles. So far I have met exactly one person who had even heard of a Honda Clarity, and I try to evangelize where I can. It's not much, but it's at least something.

From a more selfish slant, I much prefer to drive the car around town in EV mode. HV is fine on the highway, but I find the unpredictable operation of the ICE quite annoying when doing local errands. This isn't usually an issue for me since my local driving can be done using the EV range of the vehicle. Another reason I plug in the charger is to take advantage of preconditioning - yes, it does waste energy, but I am spoiled.

 

[izudin]

It's interesting to me when I see folks compute the break even point for gas vs. electric. And yes, folks use the Clarity's hybrid MPG in the calculation which is unusually good for gas-mode. My own value appreciation is a bit different. For example, while the Clarity really does get 40-44 or miles per gallon, my last car (Subaru Outback was ~22mpg) or literally half the mileage of a Clarity driven in town.
-Dan

The difference is that you are comparing cost of driving Clarity against a cost of driving your previous car. That is completely different from the comparison of a cost of driving Clarity as an electric vs. as a hybrid car.
For me (with high electricity cost), driving as a hybrid would be cheaper, but I anyway drive it as electric as much as possible. Our other car (my wife's) is Toyota Prius V (non plug-in hybrid), and I like Clarity much better

 

[PHEV Newbie]

The difference is that you are comparing cost of driving Clarity against a cost of driving your previous car. That is completely different from the comparison of a cost of driving Clarity as an electric vs. as a hybrid car.
For me (with high electricity cost), driving as a hybrid would be cheaper, but I anyway drive it as electric as much as possible. Our other car (my wife's) is Toyota Prius V (non plug-in hybrid), and I like Clarity much better

I'm mostly in EV drive but I do wonder, here in PA, whether it's cheaper to go HV when heating the cabin comfortably in winter. In EV drive, all heat comes from the battery and range goes down fast if setting the heat above 60 degrees. My understanding is that heated coolant from the running ICE can be used to heat the cabin like a regular car. If true, that's otherwise wasted heat so cabin heating should not reduce MPG much. I haven't tested it myself but it's certainly possible that it's cheaper to run the car HV mode on cold winter days. BTW, that would be a good way to use up gasoline stored in the tank before it goes bad, a major problem for those of us usually in EV drive.

 

[petteyg359]

Another reason I plug in the charger is to take advantage of preconditioning - yes, it does waste energy, but I am spoiled.

I'd argue the opposite. I can use X kWh to precondition in advance and drive the car more miles on EV, or I can just get in and go and run out of EV miles because the heater ate all the energy bars and then have to burn gas. Better to have an efficient power plant turbine burn fuel than a less-efficient car engine.

 

[MNSteve]

I'd argue the opposite. I can use X kWh to precondition in advance and drive the car more miles on EV, or I can just get in and go and run out of EV miles because the heater ate all the energy bars and then have to burn gas. Better to have an efficient power plant turbine burn fuel than a less-efficient car engine.

<sarcasm mode on> Or you can be like some of the folks here and freeze your butt off because you don't want to give up the EV miles for the sake of comfort. </sarcasm>

Yes, I indeed see your point, and it's a valid one for me. If I don't exceed the reduced EV range, then it's a wash. But you're right; it doesn't matter if I pull the power out during preconditioning or pull it out of the battery, it's the same difference.

 

[KentuckyKen]

FWIW, my preconditioning on a Level 2 EVSE this winter was dirt cheap with my rate of 10 cents/kw. Above freezing took only ~15 min and around 1 kWh (10 cents) and below freezing uses about 2 kWh (20 cents) and ~20 to get the cabin toasty warm. Then on a 15-20 min trip, I don’t even use the cabin heat. (Power usage figures from Charge Point Home app).

That power draw during preconditioning goes as high as 6 kW and equates to 3 to 6 kWHs depending on the temps. No wonder using cabin heat has a significant impact on range.
I’ve only had to use my Level 2 EVSE for multiple charging in one day a handful of times and for me it’s main benefit is preconditioning.

Here is a preconditioning event starting from A Honda Link reported 40 F cabin temp and ending with cabin at 74 F. I could have stopped at 15 min and 0.9 kW (the lowest dip in the graph) as that’s when the temp first reached 72 F.
So just 10 to 20 cents to get into a toasty warm car and still keep all my range. What’s not to like?