Clarity Started in Park- again

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Geor99

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I have posted this before, but today I go to my car, when the phone rings.

While answering it, I sit in the car in park, with 14.5 miles of ev on the battery, 63F outside, neither the heat nor ac were on,and after 2 minutes the ice cranks on.

It's not hot outside; and its definitely NOT in HV charge, nor HV for that matter.

I snapped a picture of this mysterious circumstance:) It must be charging the 12v battery, right?

I ran the ice last night during my last 5 miles home from work, although I ended the trip in ev while slowly driving down my home street.
 

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This does not make sense to me. It does not seem like the ICE should have started.

The picture shows 13.7 miles of EV range, but you reported 14.5 EV range - Did it drop that much while you were parked? - If it was in HV mode, that would have caused the ICE to start... But you reported not being in HV: Maybe your car has another way of entering HV mode.

Did you notice if EV range or HV range dropped before the ICE started?
Did you notice if EV range or HV range dropped or rose after the ICE started?
 
The car charged up to 14.5 miles. When I was typing the thread, I glanced at the screen and typed what it displayed.

So, I'll write the correction: the car was around 13.6 when it started and it was around 14.5 miles after it the ice turned off.

It definitely was NOT in HV charge nor HV. I am 100% absolutely certain that this is the case. I didn't drop the phone or accidentally hit the buton- with absolute certainty.

I have created a few threads on my car doing this, but this is the 1st time that it happened without having the ac on.
 
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Landshark said:
The ICE does not charge the 12v battery. There is no alternator.
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Well what could it possibly be? I run the ice for a couple of miles per day, after I drain the battery going to work, so it's not running after days of not being used.
 
Can one post video on these threads? Over the holidays, I often call family from the peace and tranquility of the car, so I can try to catch it on video:)
 
This seems at least "out of the norm". I might try @KentuckyKen method of hard reset by removing the negative connection to the battery. Probably won't help, but worth a shot. I guess there is the risk that something would go awry on reset, so that is a possible risk, so I give no guarantees. I really wish this car would give us some info as to why it starts the ICE when it does.
 
I understand that the ICE can kick on if:
1) You accelerate past the line on the speedometer.
2) You run out of ev miles or lower them a certain amount while in HV mode.
3) Your regen braking is overcharging the battery.
4) The ICE hasnt run in a while, and the computer decides that it's time for some "excercise."
And maybe
5) If it's too hot the ICE may kick on to run the cooling system, while in park.

But today it happened the day after I ran at least 5 miles with the ICE, within a few minutes while in park, not in HV nor HV charge mode, without the heat nor AC on, on a 65F day, & with 13+ miles of ev in the battery.

Go figure. I don't even have a theory.
 
Geor99 said:
I understand that the ICE can kick on if:
1) You accelerate past the line on the speedometer.
2) You run out of ev miles or lower them a certain amount while in HV mode.
3) Your regen braking is overcharging the battery.
4) The ICE hasnt run in a while, and the computer decides that it's time for some "excercise."
And maybe
5) If it's too hot the ICE may kick on to run the cooling system, while in park.

But today it happened the day after I ran at least 5 miles with the ICE, within a few minutes while in park, not in HV nor HV charge mode, without the heat nor AC on, on a 65F day, & with 13+ miles of ev in the battery.

Go figure. I don't even have a theory.
Click to expand...

Yes, I've never experienced 4) or 5), but agree that I've seen these posted. I have had an additional one on my car in that it will run the engine again after the initial run (and maybe even a couple of times), but always for a short duration, occasionally when started for 1) or 3). I don't know if it somehow decides "wait, I didn't run the ICE long enough to completely warm up" or what it is thinking. Never runs more than another couple of minutes, so it isn't a big deal, but interesting as to why.
 
Geor99 said:
Well what could it possibly be?
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I don’t know what could be causing the engine to start. Perhaps a software glitch?

It isn’t starting in order to charge the 12v battery, which was something you thought might be a possibility.

It could be that the car feels uncomfortable with someone on the phone in the drivers seat who is not actively driving the car. It just wants to be like all the other cars. Try sitting in the passenger seat for the next call.

Disclaimer: The previous paragraph was an attempt at humor.
 
I’ll just throw out a two word possibility:
System Check
Based on 2 years of observations, I think that if the Powers Meter did not return to blue after the ICE shut off (and before a restart), then it was most likely a System Check. I find that to be the best indicator that it was a System Check.
 
Landshark said:
The ICE does not charge the 12v battery. There is no alternator.
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I believe it is your 12v battery and you should have it checked. The ICE does indeed charge the 12v battery. The engine drives the generator motor in generation mode which outputs electrical current. This current has two seperate paths that it can follow. It can travel one or the other separately, or both at the same time. The current can follow the path to the lithium battery and is converted into electrical energy stored in the battery. The current can also follow the path to the DC/DC converter where the current is stepped down to 12v. After this conversion happens, the current can either charge the 12v and stored as electric energy or run the 12v accessories directly, or both.

So to sum it up:
ICE ==> Generator Motor ==> DC/DC Converter ==> 12v battery.

From my Scangauge observations the remaining mileage estimate of 11 miles correlates roughly to a lithium battery voltage of 302v. That would be 3.59v per cell. Nominal is 311 or 3.70v per cell. If the 12v is weak and is taxing the lithium battery too much or too long it would make sense that the engine would kick on and charge both batteries. With the car on and no external power sources connected, there are only 3 sources that can charge the 12v. The sources are the lithium battery, regenerative braking and the ICE.

Footnote: An engine is always a motor.
A motor is not always an engine.
 
AnthonyW said:
I believe it is your 12v battery and you should have it checked. The ICE does indeed charge the 12v battery. The engine drives the generator motor in generation mode which outputs electrical current. This current has two seperate paths that it can follow. It can travel one or the other separately, or both at the same time. The current can follow the path to the lithium battery and is converted into electrical energy stored in the battery. The current can also follow the path to the DC/DC converter where the current is stepped down to 12v. After this conversion happens, the current can either charge the 12v and stored as electric energy or run the 12v accessories directly, or both.

So to sum it up:
ICE ==> Generator Motor ==> DC/DC Converter ==> 12v battery.

From my Scangauge observations the remaining mileage estimate of 11 miles correlates roughly to a lithium battery voltage of 302v. That would be 3.59v per cell. Nominal is 311 or 3.70v per cell. If the 12v is weak and is taxing the lithium battery too much or too long it would make sense that the engine would kick on and charge both batteries. With the car on and no external power sources connected, there are only 3 sources that can charge the 12v. The sources are the lithium battery, regenerative braking and the ICE.

Footnote: An engine is always a motor.
A motor is not always an engine.
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Hmmn, I will go to eurozone and get it checked out.

I've always wondered why is a 12v battery even needed. Couldn't the large battery be used for its functionality?
 
As someone who has never just sat in my car with ignition on, not going anywhere, for long periods of time...

This activity sounds entirely reasonable to me, and I agree the computer is probably turning on the engine to prevent depletion of the 12v battery, which occurs when any vehicle is just sitting there with accessories running. Lack of alternator is irrelevant...the car may be programmed to charge the 12v battery only while car is in motion, or while not in motion with ICE running.

Why might Honda program it like this? I dunno...ask the engineers...

To those who are saying this doesn’t seem right or normal, how many of you have actually sat in your car for a half hour, with ignition on, and transmission in park? I know I never have. Maybe some of you do this? I suspect Geor99 here is one of a very few people who do this at times. In my mind anyone who hasn’t personally done this can’t really be confident on what is normal operation of the car or not...myself included.
 
You
craze1cars said:
As someone who has never just sat in my car with ignition on, not going anywhere, for long periods of time...

This activity sounds entirely reasonable to me, and I agree the computer is probably turning on the engine to prevent depletion of the 12v battery, which occurs when any vehicle is just sitting there with accessories running. Lack of alternator is irrelevant...the car may be programmed to charge the 12v battery only while car is in motion, or while not in motion with ICE running.

Why might Honda program it like this? I dunno...ask the engineers...

To those who are saying this doesn’t seem right or normal, how many of you have actually sat in your car for a half hour, with ignition on, and transmission in park? I know I never have. Maybe some of you do this? I suspect Geor99 here is one of a very few people who do this at times. In my mind anyone who hasn’t personally done this can’t really be confident on what is normal operation of the car or not...myself included.
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You Guys dont ever pull over or sit in the car in park and make or take a phone call? I often need to write things down or pull up a technical pdf document, so I will pull over if it is a work call.
I'd guess that I sit in park on the phone for at least an hour or 2 per week. Then again, I get a lot of work calls. Now, unless it is too hot and need ac, I'll turn the car off.

I didn't think that this was that unusual, but maybe it is:)
 
Landshark said:
Geor99,

Are you in CA? No one in CA pulls over to take a phone call, or send a text, or change the baby’s diaper, or put on make up, or watch a video. There’s too much to do.
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I am in Southern California. I get what you are saying, but I often get calls with questions about engineering schematics, so I need to pull up the drawings and study them while answering the manufacturer's questions. They never seem to call when I'm at my desk, only when it's the least convenient:)
It's too much stress to do this while driving, so I'll pull over into a gas station most of the time.

If it is over 15 or 20 minutes, I see this ice starting phenomenon approximately 10% of the time.

It just takes 1 screw-up to destroy my or someone else's life, so I pull over.
 
I did extensive idling for a career in my company car...for 25 years. Let the ICE idle to keep me and my equipment warm/cool depending on season, and keep my computers and printers and phones running and charged. As a former field based insurance adjuster my car was my office. I'd guess my average MPG over the 2 million miles I drove run-of-the-mill 6 cylinder company sedans was about 14 mpg LOL. Engines ran 8 hours a day and I idled them just like a cop car whenever stopped at businesses and customer's homes. Carry 2 sets of keys, lock the car, let it idle for a hour to keep the computers inside from overheating, or printer ink from freezing solid during a meeting, get in, drive 100 miles, and repeat for the next meeting.

But as a personal vehicle, my Clarity has never been used for such purposes. I have no idea how it handles long term idling.

And I always thought the average age of a Clarity owner on this forum was somewhere near 87...way past using cars for employment work...maybe I'm wrong.
 
craze1cars said:
This activity sounds entirely reasonable to me, and I agree the computer is probably turning on the engine to prevent depletion of the 12v battery, which occurs when any vehicle is just sitting there with accessories running. Lack of alternator is irrelevant...the car may be programmed to charge the 12v battery only while car is in motion, or while not in motion with ICE running.
Click to expand...
I worked as a mechanic for a couple of years so I know in a car with an alternator if you measure the voltage on the 12 volt battery with the engine off, you will measure 12 volts. Once you start the engine, the voltage on the battery will measure about 15 volts because the alternator is charging the battery.
I tried the same test on my Clarity. With the car turned off, the voltage measured 12 volts. Once I turned the car on (car in park and no ICE) the voltage measured slightly under 15 volts because the 12 volt battery is being charged whenever the car is on.
 
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