Clarity Started in Park- again

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leop said:
Honda warrants the 12V battery at 100% for the first three years, starting when the vehicle is delivered to the first purchaser or leasee (see pages 6 and 9 of the warranty booklet). After three years, the 12V battery has prorated warranty coverage up to the 100 month, 8 years and 4 months total (page 34). So, no cynical font needed but just a happy font.

LP
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Thats great news!!! So, the dealer should be able to replace it for me completely free of charge according to this poster.

Ill definitely post how it goes, and I will sit in park a couple of times reading during my lunch break just out of curiosity to see if it continues to turn on the ice. And I will post the results here. Hopefully, it wont happen again and we'll have a solution to my "mystery," and perhaps travel 1/2 step closer to understanding the anomaly that is The Clarity:)
 
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JCA said:
When the car is "Ready", the voltage on the 12V system is ~14V because the DC-DC converter is the electricity supply in the "12V" circuit; the 12V battery at that point is just another consuming load like the ECO, headlights, fans, etc. That's actually true of any car when running (via the alternator instead of the DC-DC converter), but the quality of the power from especially an older generation alternator might not be very good, and the voltage droops and surges without the battery buffering could cause problems. With modern voltage regulators, I suspect the DC-DC converter supplies a pretty clean consistent voltage, and it has to be sized to supply the max load anyway (computers, high beam headlights, fan on high, seat heaters assuming they're the same as other Hondas and thus 12V, etc) otherwise your battery would be drained after a long winter night drive. You can verify this by turning on all that stuff and measuring the voltage; if it's higher than the native battery voltage when off then the battery is being charged, not supplying power.

BUT, again, the consequence of being wrong (e.g. if the voltage regulation isn't good) is replacing a ton of expensive electronics, so please nobody do it!
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From personal experience you cannot start the car with a dead 12v. Regardless if you have a full traction battery or if you connect the car to a charger. If the 12v is dead you have to do a traditional jump to start the car so there is no way to operate the car without a functioning 12v.


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leop said:
Honda warrants the 12V battery at 100% for the first three years, starting when the vehicle is delivered to the first purchaser or leasee (see pages 6 and 9 of the warranty booklet). After three years, the 12V battery has prorated warranty coverage up to the 100 month, 8 years and 4 months total (page 34). So, no cynical font needed but just a happy font.

LP
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Thanks for looking this up for us. I completely forgot about the warranty manual. So the take home is that for the first 3 years of ownership, it’s a no brainer just to go to the dealer and get a free replacement that costs nothing but your time. After 3 years, you have to factor in the pro-rata, dealer battery price, and new warranty to see if its a better deal somewhere else.
 
It maybe worth making a mental note, or one on paper, to have the battery tested after 35 1/2 months, and possibly have it replaced under the full warranty.

Using the 100 month pro-rated warranty, a savvy mathematician might conclude that the replacement value would be reduced by 1% per month. So even after 36 months, Honda may cover more than 60% of the cost. Would this OEM replacement then be covered under a new 36/100 month warranty?

All good info, but I still maintain that a “bad” 12v battery would not trigger the ICE to start.
 
AnthonyW said:
From personal experience you cannot start the car with a dead 12v. Regardless if you have a full traction battery or if you connect the car to a charger. If the 12v is dead you have to do a traditional jump to start the car so there is no way to operate the car without a functioning 12v.


Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
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I completely agree and didn't mean to imply otherwise. The 12V battery is required to power the computers and sensors needed to do all the safety checks and setup before turning on the relay to the high voltage battery; no 12V battery no start. However, once that relay is enabled and the car is on (and thus the high voltage battery and DC-DC converter is supplying the 12V circuit), the battery could be disconnected and the car would stay on. Mechanics used to do this to regular cars to check the alternator, i.e. that the car keeps running with the battery disconnected, until enough sensitive electronics were there to worry about power surges and dips.

It's good to note that a "jump start" is a bit simpler in our cars. A traditional ICE starter can draw 200-300+ Amps, which is why you need those heavy cables and why you can't just put a little 6A battery charger on and start it right up. Any hybrid with no starter draws much less than that, so you can start it with a much smaller booster/charger (which matches my experience with our Highlander Hybrid). Of course, a deeply drained battery itself may need significant current and time before the voltage gets high enough to start.
 
This forum is great. One can post about any issue whatsoever about their Clarity and a large group of intelligent people converse until a consensus is reached, most of the time at least.

If only, I could post about the other issues in life:) Yes, I know that would never work for a large number of reasons.

But thanks, Guys. I would have definitely ignored this issue and eventually have been stranded, sin this forum.

One of my pet peeves is that car batteries seem to die with almost no warning, completely bricking the car. Youd think that some kind of warning system could be implemented.

Everyone in this forum (several times) has gone to their car only to find it completely immobile due to a dead battery. One day it works and the next it is a giant paperweight due to a dead battery.
 
Geor99 said:
One of my pet peeves is that car batteries seem to die with almost no warning, completely bricking the car.
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Yes, despite all the intensive Li-Ion battery research going on, the lowly lead-acid battery that all cars depend on hasn't changed much in decades. At least they're sealed now so we no longer have to check the electrolyte levels.
 
insightman said:
Yes, despite all the intensive Li-Ion battery research going on, the lowly lead-acid battery that all cars depend on hasn't changed much in decades. At least they're sealed now so we no longer have to check the electrolyte levels.
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But can't there be some kind of warning system? I would imagine that there is in an important vehicle like an ambulance, where a dead battery could cost a life.
 
The dealer that I bought the car from is not making it easy. I kept getting transfered around, so I'm going elsewhere.

I did manage to learn that they charge $115 for the battery, if its not under warranty. But I will fight to get it free under warranty.
 
A LA starting battery in an ICE vehicle will give you a warning if you are attentive when starting the vehicle. It may give you 2 or 3, if you’re fortunate. It will crank over a bit slower than normal, but will start. I’ve had this happen every time a battery neared its end. The thought that comes to mind is, “That didn’t sound right.”

A lithium jump starter is a must, along with jumper cables.
 
Hello Guys,

Its the originator of this thread here.
I finally got around to getting a new battery. The dealership gave me a free replacement and got me out of there in literally 15 minutes. I didn't pay a penny.

So, during lunch I sat in the car while in park with 15 ev miles, no ac nor heat on a 65F day.

Within 15 minutes, the motor cranked on. And yes, I did open the hood in order to check that they actually changed the battery. They did, plus I needed to reset a few things upon enterong the car the 1st time at the dealership.

The motor started on the day that I changed the battery- today.
 
While I usually, humorously say it’s never too early to panic, I think in this case it is. Installing a new battery caused a hard reset of the system and it will need a few charge and drive cycles to be at its best. It could be that with not much of a history in memory that going down to 15 miles EV was triggering the ICE. I had the ICE come on when I got down to 10 miles EV range and turned off the car in a drive through line to try and save enough charge to get home. Upon restart, the EV range went to 0 and the ICE came on. So that strategy backfired on me.
Wait a few days and post back what it’s doing. I drive about 95% EV with long periods between HV trips, and even I have the ICE come on unexpectedly about once a month or so.
Next time try to notice how long it stays on, if the EV indicator turns off, and if the Power Meter goes all white and stays all white even after the ICE turns off and until a restart. I take those to be indicative of a System Check, but who really knows since Honda is so tight lipped about the algorithm. Also every once in a while the assumed System Check will turn the ICE on and off a couple of times with no correlation to any driving condition that is obvious and indeed the manual says that it might do just that.
Give it some time to build up an operating history and post back what it’s doing. There’s still a possibility it’s not just the battery.
 
KentuckyKen said:
While I usually, humorously say it’s never too early to panic, I think in this case it is. Installing a new battery caused a hard reset of the system and it will need a few charge and drive cycles to be at its best. It could be that with not much of a history in memory that going down to 15 miles EV was triggering the ICE. I had the ICE come on when I got down to 10 miles EV range and turned off the car in a drive through line to try and save enough charge to get home. Upon restart, the EV range went to 0 and the ICE came on. So that strategy backfired on me.
Wait a few days and post back what it’s doing. I drive about 95% EV with long periods between HV trips, and even I have the ICE come on unexpectedly about once a month or so.
Next time try to notice how long it stays on, if the EV indicator turns off, and if the Power Meter goes all white and stays all white even after the ICE turns off and until a restart. I take those to be indicative of a System Check, but who really knows since Honda is so tight lipped about the algorithm. Also every once in a while the assumed System Check will turn the ICE on and off a couple of times with no correlation to any driving condition that is obvious and indeed the manual says that it might do just that.
Give it some time to build up an operating history and post back what it’s doing. There’s still a possibility it’s not just the battery.
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Thanks for commenting.
I will definitely take your advice. Id also like to reiterate a point: outside of this issue which only occurs if I sit in park for an extended period of time, the car works perfectly.

And in reality, I dont care if it cranks on while in park after a while. Im just curious as to why it happens.

The 2 cents in gas that it uses every couple of weeks wont kill me:)
 
Have you ever tried sitting with the car in accessory mode and using the preconditioning from your phone rather than having the car "on" while sitting in it? I have done this while sitting in the car during a time I am charging. It should be impossible for the ICE to start in this mode.
 
Robert_Alabama said:
Have you ever tried sitting with the car in accessory mode and using the preconditioning from your phone rather than having the car "on" while sitting in it? I have done this while sitting in the car during a time I am charging. It should be impossible for the ICE to start in this mode.
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I have. You can also turn it on with your key when the car is off.

Lock doors and hit fan button via your key.

This is more of a curiousity thing than a horrible event. I can drive at 20 mph for 2 hours and the ice won't kick on, but I can't sit in park for 20 minutes without it probably happening.

Just a strange quirk that I can certainly live with.
 
Geor99 said:
Thanks for commenting.
I will definitely take your advice. Id also like to reiterate a point: outside of this issue which only occurs if I sit in park for an extended period of time, the car works perfectly.

And in reality, I dont care if it cranks on while in park after a while. Im just curious as to why it happens.

The 2 cents in gas that it uses every couple of weeks wont kill me:)
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Did the dealer test the 12V battery?

While displayed EV range varies from day to day and car to car based on previous drives and other factors such as temperature, the displayed range, in miles, and level on the battery gauge, in bars, should be determined by the HV battery voltage.

How many bars were displayed on the battery gauge with 15 miles remaining?
5 or 6?

I’m not convinced that this car learns anything. If a driver gets more than estimated EV miles one day, it may predict greater range the following day.

Throttle input or a low HV battery are the 2 most likely situations to trigger the ICE. I’d lean more toward a bad lithium cell or voltage sensor that is sending a false signal or indicating a low cell.
 
Landshark said:
Did the dealer test the 12V battery?

While displayed EV range varies from day to day and car to car based on previous drives and other factors such as temperature, the displayed range, in miles, and level on the battery gauge, in bars, should be determined by the HV battery voltage.

How many bars were displayed on the battery gauge with 15 miles remaining?
5 or 6?

I’m not convinced that this car learns anything. If a driver gets more than estimated EV miles one day, it may predict greater range the following day.

Throttle input or a low HV battery are the 2 most likely situations to trigger the ICE. I’d lean more toward a bad lithium cell or voltage sensor that is sending a false signal or indicating a low cell.
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The dealer didn't test the battery. I told them that I was in a rush, true, so they threw in a battery and sent me on my way.

I don't recall the number of bars last time, but I have posted fotos in this thread when this has happened. I see several bars.

Your comment about a bad battery cell in my big battery is worrisome.
 
If you are ever seeing 50+ miles of EV range in periods that you don't have to run the heat and with moderate driving, then I'd bet your HV battery is fine. The sensor is potentially a source, but I'd think it would act up more often than just when you are idling...
 
Robert_Alabama said:
If you are ever seeing 50+ miles of EV range in periods that you don't have to run the heat and with moderate driving, then I'd bet your HV battery is fine. The sensor is potentially a source, but I'd think it would act up more often than just when you are idling...
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I get about 40 ev miles in mostly perfect Southern California weather. However, I drive almost exclusively to and from work outside of rush hours (leave late/work late;) and I am almost always going over 70mph- often pushing 80.
 
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