My 2018 Touring Clarity with 14,000 miles woke up to its first frigid night in WI: -12 outside, +19 inside the garage. This was the first time this winter the full EV charge was below 32 miles (27). Took the car on errands for about 3 hours and 60 miles with no issues except the poor traction on ice and snow packed roads from the OEM tires.
Clarity responds to first frigid weather
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
- Replies 20
- Views 6K
Richard Kelly
Member
SNOW TIRES!
Harold lowery
New Member
Or even some of the new 3 mountain peak rated all season tires like the Goodyear Assurance WeatherReady tires that can be ran all year around eliminating the need for two sets. They are a night and day difference for me with Nebraska winter conditions. My wife now prefers the clarity over our 4 wheel drive super duty in slick conditions.
The Gadgeteer
Active Member
4sallypat
Active Member
Well that's a new type of tire that are both all season and winter.
I usually run 2 sets - winter and rest of the season set because the winters wear out so quickly in dry pavement.
Goodyear must have blended the high silica content of winter tires into A/S tires ??
Technology advances on tires never cease to amaze me!
It was 5 degrees F this morning in upstate NY. My Clarity PHEV was parked outside. Started the car and it immediately started the internal combustion engine and it doesn't seem to want to use the battery for propulsion. The info screen seems to indicate that regenerative braking is charging the battery though. When I started driving the dashboard shows 9 F for outside temperature.
victor_2019
Active Member
this morning in montreal it was -19C
I kept the car outside (no garage for me
) but plugged in to 240V and in the morning used the preheat for about 10-15 minutes.the engine started up as soon as I started the car. It later stopped and restarted a few seconds later while I was at a stop light.
I discovered that the engine was running when I was asking for heat. If I turn the heating off, the engine will stop, but as soon as I ask for heat again, the engine immediately stops.
While I had the HVAC off the engine did not start at all, but consistently started as soon as I hit that "auto" switch on the climate.
I assume that when it's -20C outside, the battery alone is not strong enough to supply both the traction motor and the heat requirement.
This did not happen to me when it was only -10C for example.
The Gadgeteer
Active Member
I read below 5F(-15C) the Clarity PHEV will start the engine not only to help with the electric load but valves will open to allow hot engine coolant into the heater core to help with passenger compartment heating depending on the climate control settings and various temperature sensors.
https://carswithplugs.com/2018/03/17/electric-car-heaters-honda-clarity/
https://carswithplugs.com/2018/03/17/electric-car-heaters-honda-clarity/
ClarityBill
Active Member
You must be close to me! I am in Upstate and mine also said 9F and automatically ran the ICE with a full battery. It is documented in the manual that the ICE starts anytime the temperature is below 15F.
The manual also states the car will not operate if the temperature is below -22F - I don't remember any field reports of this occurring.
leehoewonek
Member
I don't understand Honda's decision to not equip the American models with a battery heater. Here in Canada the battery heater is standard equipment, so there is no temperature restriction, and I've started the car after it was sitting outside all day at -28c with no problem. Of course, we don't get power seats, which is disappointing, but doesn't limit our use of the car in any weather.
I didn't see any exemption from the -30C restriction for Canadian Clarity PHEVs in the Owners Manual (page 109). It does say that you should keep Canadian cars garaged and plugged in, so that's somewhat of an exemption. However, when you'd take the car away from it's garage and EVSE and park it outside in -30C weather, you may come back to a bricked Clarity.
Last edited:
leehoewonek
Member
This is the section of the User's Guide that caught my eye (p. 51):
U.S. models
If the temperature of the High Voltage battery drops below approximately
-22°F ( -30°C), the power system will not start, the High Voltage battery will
not operate and, as a result, the vehicle will not start.
Canadian models
If the temperature of the High Voltage battery drops to approximately –22°F
(–30°C) or below, the power system will not start. Wait for the High Voltage
battery to warm up or move the vehicle to a warmer location.
My understanding is the battery heater kicks in at -17c (same as my Leaf), so the temperature of the battery shouldn't ever go down to -30c. And as I've said, I had no issues last winter starting it when parked outside all day in temperatures approaching -30c. In that situation the ICE comes on immediately, but if that's what it needs to do, that's fine.
PHEV Newbie
Well-Known Member
Canadian Claritys have a battery heater specifically for that reason but US Claritys don't come with one. This is unfortunate because many US regions can have much colder average winter temperatures than the two largest Canadian population centers of Toronto and Vancouver. The battery heater is not there just to improve performance of the battery but also to protect it. Although Li ion batteries can discharge, albeit at lower efficiencies, safely at battery temperatures below freezing, charging the battery is very harmful below freezing (battery temp, not ambient). Thus, it is possible that Honda is trying to protect the battery by running the engine, both to provide power, and to absorb the energy during regeneration at very cold temperatures. Regen is literally charging the battery so the last thing you want to do when the battery is very cold is to charge it (see for example: https://relionbattery.com/blog/lithium-battery-cold-weather ).
The Gadgeteer
Active Member
The Battery Managment System (BMS) does seem to limit regen on a cold battery. I notice coming off a highway off ramp yesterday despite having less than a third of my EV range left I was only able to use two chevrons of regen until my speed dropped down.
Presumably the battery will warm up a bit with engine use and/or charging/discharging even without the battery warmer on the Canadian models.
Presumably the battery will warm up a bit with engine use and/or charging/discharging even without the battery warmer on the Canadian models.
How does the engine warm the battery?
As far as I know, the only warming the battery can experience would be exotherm thru charging and/or discharging activity (so HV charge might help a little). Even the Volt (which had electric battery warming) had no means of using engine coolant to warm the battery (though it was a common misconception).
The Gadgeteer
Active Member
I do not think the coolant loop will also warm the battery. I assume charging/discharging/HV use would do something to warm the battery since it normally needs to be cooled down in mild and warm temperatures. I would love to get a hold of more technical information on how the Clarity PHEV works.
leehoewonek
Member
I suspect the draw from the battery heater is sufficient that the system will start the ICE in most circumstances if the heater is on. I started my car two days ago after sitting 4 hours at -17c, and the ICE came on right away even though I had about 90% charge.
The Gadgeteer
Active Member
The Clarity PHEV switches to using the engine for heat at about 5 F (-15 C) according to the below article.
https://carswithplugs.com/2018/03/17/electric-car-heaters-honda-clarity/
https://carswithplugs.com/2018/03/17/electric-car-heaters-honda-clarity/
AnthonyW
Well-Known Member
The Canadians have dedicated battery warmers. Here in the US we have a thermistor system. With a thermistor, internal resistance is higher at lower temperatures. Thus, initial charge energy does not go into the battery but is lost as heat-heat that warms the battery. As the thermistor heats up resistance decreases and charge starts to go into the battery. The thermistor system is not as robust as the dedicated battery warmer that the Canadians have.
Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs