Clarity Purchase/Accord Hybrid Touring/RAV 4 Prime/Model Y?

[joethebeekeeper]

Don’t recall anyone mentioning Roman Numerals.

You, in a way, did when you asked "What’s with all the references to millions?" in response OP's post. He was not incorect in his use of the the capital "M". The capital "M" stands for 1000 using roman numerals. So "$16.5M" means $16,500 it does not mean $16,500,000 (that would be $16.5MM). Using the lower case "k" is also acceptable (upper case could be confused for degrees Kelvin) so $16.5k and $16.5M both mean the same thing except one is based in Greek culture and one is based in Roman culture.

 

[Boston_Pilot]

You, in a way, did when you asked "What’s with all the references to millions?" in response OP's post. He was not incorect in his use of the the capital "M". The capital "M" stands for 1000 using roman numerals. So "$16.5M" means $16,500 it does not mean $16,500,000 (that would be $16.5MM). Using the lower case "k" is also acceptable (upper case could be confused for degrees Kelvin) so $16.5k and $16.5M both mean the same thing except one is based in Greek culture and one is based in Roman culture.

Listen, I wrote it, not you. Please don’t tell me what I meant. Trust me, I didn’t mention Roman anything. In any way.

 

[PHEVDave]

You, in a way, did when you asked "What’s with all the references to millions?" in response OP's post. He was not incorect in his use of the the capital "M". The capital "M" stands for 1000 using roman numerals. So "$16.5M" means $16,500 it does not mean $16,500,000 (that would be $16.5MM). Using the lower case "k" is also acceptable (upper case could be confused for degrees Kelvin) so $16.5k and $16.5M both mean the same thing except one is based in Greek culture and one is based in Roman culture.

In French, too, Mille=1,000, million=1,000,000, and milliard=1,000,000,000.

 

[Boston_Pilot]

Mon Dieu!

Et aussi, la tarte est délicieuse !

 

[Phil_Meyers]

Keep the clarity, it's a great car and the least expensive option you list.

Five years from now you'll look back and be happy you didn't spend the extra $$$.

 

[Pooky]

In French, too, Mille=1,000, million=1,000,000, and milliard=1,000,000,000.

I would give the benefit of the doubt and assume that our lovely OP is French-Canadian. Of course, they say they are from New Jersey, but it is still possible.
My, look at that, we are far off-topic now.

Cheers

 

[jpkik96]

Keep the clarity, it's a great car and the least expensive option you list.

Five years from now you'll look back and be happy you didn't spend the extra $$$.

Phil - Thank you for responding to my original post. I agree the Clarity is a very good car but am somewhat disappointed that Honda never tried to realize its full potential to make it a great car. This easily could have been done by differentiating the Touring model from the base car - and also by tweaking the rear styling (which I am okay with) so it appealed to a broader audience.

That said, agree with you that Clarity remains my cheapest option and fortunately, I can always drive my GT with the top down when I have the need for speed (versus efficiency!) and a sunroof!

Thanks again

 

[LAF]

All - I have 4 months remaining on my 2018 Clarity Touring lease and am considering my options. When I leased in June 2018, I put no money down and am paying $380/month. I also installed a ChargePoint 240V charge receptacle outside my garage. I have had 36M trouble-free miles with the Clarity (except for a dead battery that was replaced under warranty and quick wear-out of the Energy Saver tires that I replaced with Michelin CC+). For me, the Clarity is not my ideal car - I definitely would enjoy a better infotainment center, sunroof, and more power but have enjoyed driving the Clarity. So here are my options:

1.) Continue the Clarity lease for another 12 months or purchase off-lease for the $16.5M residual. Today re-sale value for Clarity Touring's in excellent condition is lower so unless I can somehow purchase off-lease cheaper is not a good financial option. Also, with minimal changes made to the Clarity, except for the benefit of a new HV battery and factory warranty coverage I don't see the benefit of leasing another one.

2.) I can lease a 2020 Accord Touring Hybrid for the same monthly cost but would need to come out of pocket $2M at inception. I test drove the Accord and like its amenities and Power. 2.) I also like the fact that I will be under warranty for another 36 months. However, the engine does drone under hard acceleration and I will give up the ability to drive 40-50 miles in Electric mode and temporarily stop using my ChargePoint...

Option 3 and 4 assume I drive the Clarity through lease expiration in June AND NJ will renew the Drive Electric incentive in Summer 2021.

3.) Purchase or Lease a RAV4 Prime XSE - I test drove one a few weeks ago and appreciated the amenities and Power missing in the Clarity Touring. I could have purchased it slightly under MSRP but even with the $7.5M tax credit, It still does not seem to me to be a good value. I am hoping supply ramps up to the 20M Toyota is forecasting for annual production by the summer and as other EVs and PHEVs are introduced that pricing will be more reasonable.

4.) Purchase or Lease a Tesla Model Y. - I also rented a Model Y Long Range on Turo late last year and enjoyed driving it. However, the Model Y ride is much firmer than all of the traditional cars above, and given build quality concerns, I would not buy one until Tesla can fully work out their production issues. I also still prefer AA and Apple Car Play and traditional switches and guauges over Tesla's one-screen infotainment. Finally, even with Tesla's extensive charging network in the Northeast, I still like the convenience of having a gas engine for backup when you are driving "off the grid".

I have really enjoyed following this forum and reading everyone's collective input so value your thoughts on the options I have outlined above. Thank you in advance.

After driving EV I bet you will be disappointed with the Honda Hybrid.

 

[jpkik96]

After driving EV I bet you will be disappointed with the Honda Hybrid.

LAF - That's is my primary concern as well. While I did enjoy test-driving the Accord Touring, driving EV is addictive! Thanks for your input....

 

[Agzand]

I say life is short, get something new and exciting, either RAV4 or Model Y. If you don't want to spend that much get an iD4.

 

[jpkik96]

I say life is short, get something new and exciting, either RAV4 or Model Y. If you don't want to spend that much get an iD4.

Agzand - Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I just posted a separate link noting that Toyota announced today two new EV's and one new PHEV for the US market for 2021 - hopefully there will be more EV and PHEV models to choose from in the 2nd half of 2021 and model year 2022.

 

[jpkik96]

All - I have 4 months remaining on my 2018 Clarity Touring lease and am considering my options. When I leased in June 2018, I put no money down and am paying $380/month. I also installed a ChargePoint 240V charge receptacle outside my garage. I have had 36M trouble-free miles with the Clarity (except for a dead battery that was replaced under warranty and quick wear-out of the Energy Saver tires that I replaced with Michelin CC+). For me, the Clarity is not my ideal car - I definitely would enjoy a better infotainment center, sunroof, and more power but have enjoyed driving the Clarity. So here are my options:

1.) Continue the Clarity lease for another 12 months or purchase off-lease for the $16.5M residual. Today re-sale value for Clarity Touring's in excellent condition is lower so unless I can somehow purchase off-lease cheaper is not a good financial option. Also, with minimal changes made to the Clarity, except for the benefit of a new HV battery and factory warranty coverage I don't see the benefit of leasing another one.

2.) I can lease a 2020 Accord Touring Hybrid for the same monthly cost but would need to come out of pocket $2M at inception. I test drove the Accord and like its amenities and Power. 2.) I also like the fact that I will be under warranty for another 36 months. However, the engine does drone under hard acceleration and I will give up the ability to drive 40-50 miles in Electric mode and temporarily stop using my ChargePoint...

Option 3 and 4 assume I drive the Clarity through lease expiration in June AND NJ will renew the Drive Electric incentive in Summer 2021.

3.) Purchase or Lease a RAV4 Prime XSE - I test drove one a few weeks ago and appreciated the amenities and Power missing in the Clarity Touring. I could have purchased it slightly under MSRP but even with the $7.5M tax credit, It still does not seem to me to be a good value. I am hoping supply ramps up to the 20M Toyota is forecasting for annual production by the summer and as other EVs and PHEVs are introduced that pricing will be more reasonable.

4.) Purchase or Lease a Tesla Model Y. - I also rented a Model Y Long Range on Turo late last year and enjoyed driving it. However, the Model Y ride is much firmer than all of the traditional cars above, and given build quality concerns, I would not buy one until Tesla can fully work out their production issues. I also still prefer AA and Apple Car Play and traditional switches and gauges over Tesla's one-screen infotainment. Finally, even with Tesla's extensive charging network in the Northeast, I still like the convenience of having a gas engine for backup when you are driving "off the grid".

I have really enjoyed following this forum and reading everyone's collective input so value your thoughts on the options I have outlined above. Thank you in advance.

All - I have one more car to add to this list: a 2021 Honda Clarity. CostcoAuto.com confirms in NJ there is a $5k Manufacturer to Dealer incentive in place in NJ ($7.5k for 2020 but none to be found in NY or NJ). Also 1.9apr financing from Honda available. While not my ideal car - if you can take advantage of the Federal tax credit - the Clarity still offers a lot of value in the PHEV space. A '21 Touring OTD price is $33.5K so after the Federal Tax Credit would be approx $26k. Purchasing my car off lease in June (at the residual) and adding a Honda Car warranty would cost $19.2k I realize there has been minimal to no changes in the Clarity PHEV since it came out in 2018 but seems compelling to be able to drive a new car with a new battery for $6.8k more...Thoughts? Do you think Honda will increase the dealer incentive more later in the year? As always, thanks for sharing your thoughts!

 

[insightman]

All - I have one more car to add to this list: a 2021 Honda Clarity. CostcoAuto.com confirms in NJ there is a $5k Manufacturer to Dealer incentive in place in NJ ($7.5k for 2020 but none to be found in NY or NJ). Also 1.9apr financing from Honda available. While not my ideal car - if you can take advantage of the Federal tax credit - the Clarity still offers a lot of value in the PHEV space. A '21 Touring OTD price is $33.5K so after the Federal Tax Credit would be approx $26k. Purchasing my car off lease in June (at the residual) and adding a Honda Car warranty would cost $19.2k I realize there has been minimal to no changes in the Clarity PHEV since it came out in 2018 but seems compelling to be able to drive a new car with a new battery for $6.8k more...Thoughts? Do you think Honda will increase the dealer incentive more later in the year? As always, thanks for sharing your thoughts!

The minimal changes have all been negative IMO. I could live with a louder pedestrian warning sound that plays when stopped and continues to a higher speed, but I like how my 2018 Clarity's cruise control slows the car with regen braking to maintain the set speed when going downhill and wouldn't want to lose that feature. Also, Honda's lost the formula to the Moonlit Forest Pearl paint, which I still really like.

 

[Landshark]

I realize there has been minimal to no changes in the Clarity PHEV since it came out in 2018 but seems compelling to be able to drive a new car with a new battery for $6.8k more...

How significant of a factor is the Dollar?

Your current car would be the lowest cost option. It has already suffered its most significant amount of depreciation. Buying a new car will start that whole process all over again. There’s more to the formula than just the $6800 buy in.

A new Clarity at $26K, net, will depreciate by a larger dollar amount over the next 3 years than your 3 year old car. A new $40-50K vehicle may depreciate by $15-20K over a 3 year period. It’s a double whammy of a larger monthly payment and greater depreciation.

Since the Clarity is on your short list, and you don’t seem 100% certain on any of the other options, it may be worth considering a buy out of your car off lease. Drive it for a year or two at a relatively low cost and maybe something will come on the market that you can’t live without.

 

[Jimmy Vo]

I own Clarity and Model Y so I can give you my perspective.
First, Model Y is more expensive, so it's not a fair comparison.
I can give you my perspective PHEV vs BEV. It all depends on your charging network. In California, virtually supercharging everywhere, it does not make sense to get PHEV. I charge Model Y over 200 miles that take about 30mins. Not to mention charging from home. So the charging is a NO issue at all.
As for my case, again, my case only, if I could go back, I would not buy PHEV, I would buy BEV since I rarely use ICE on my Clairity since I got it. But I keep the Clarity since it's a great car
As for driving comfort, yes Model Y is very stiff. I came from big SUV Infiniti QX60, QX60 is much a smoother ride. But just like in life, nothing is perfect, I still love Model Y over QX60 since its raw power. I can have a lot of fun with MY
Model Y EPA is 320 miles per charge, I tested it out, driving in CA with little heat on, it gave me around 300 miles with fully charge at 70mph. If you go over 90mph, you would lose around 30miles
Again, to me, PHEV vs BEV is all about network charging. If you never have to worry about charging, then never get PHEV, imo.

 

[jpkik96]

Insightman, Landshark, and Jimmy Vo - thank you all for your review and reply! I have narrowed somewhat - at this point, I am only considering PHEV or full EV for my next car. The fact is my ChargePoint is paid for and Jimmy Vo to your point most of my daily/weekend driving can be covered by my home charger. Also, Tesla's charging network on the East coast is definitely a strong point in its favor With the recent announcement of the GREEN act, assuming it is passed, both TESLA and GM EV's would potentially be eligible for a $7k federal tax credit, so assuming no price increases, makes the Model Y and 3 more price competitive, although still the most expensive option. NJ has no sales tax on EV's and if NJ comes up with the money for another EV credit (it was $5k before being canceled last December when it ran out of money), that is another strong consideration in favor of EV's.

I am not sure I would want to own the Clarity without having Honda Care protection which is an additional financial consideration. Finally, Landshark to your point, I can also extend my lease either month to month or up to an additional year at the end of June, which gives me the option to see if any of the above tax credits get re-instated, or a new PHEV or EV model is announced...thanks again!

 

[Landshark]

If you never have to worry about charging, then never get PHEV, imo.

I got a PHEV, and I never have to worry about charging. Ever.

 

[Jimmy Vo]

I got a PHEV, and I never have to worry about charging. Ever.

Well, ICE people say the same thing about charging with PHEV and BEV. Since you don't like charging, you might want to go back in time to get an ICE car then. Then you truly "ever" have to worry about charging. For some reason, I get the feeling, you might buy the Clarity for the sake of tax credit, but never charge and never use the battery. Not a bad strategy either , just saying

 

[Landshark]

Well, ICE people say the same thing about charging with PHEV and BEV. Since you don't like charging, you might want to go back in time to get an ICE car then. Then you truly "ever" have to worry about charging. For some reason, I get the feeling, you might buy the Clarity for the sake of tax credit, but never charge and never use the battery. Not a bad strategy either , just saying

How does it benefit the conversation to categorize people and divide them into groups? Why the comment on going back in time? At the present time ICE dominates car sales. Take a look at the numbers. BIG, BIG numbers.

I charge every day that I use the car. I typically drive 40-50 miles a day, almost always, completely in EV. I milk every electron out of the battery. I don’t care about charging to 100% and then completely discharging the battery every day. I never “worry” about charging the battery, doesn’t mean I never charge the battery.

Recently, I worked at a location that provided charging at no cost. I asked a coworker who drives a Model 3 and utilizes this benefit to the greatest extent possible, if he arrived at work with a nearly empty battery. He said he had charged at home to approximately 100 miles of range, so that he knew the car could make the round trip back home, if, for some reason, he could not charge at work. Space not available, power outage, etc. His round trip commute is about 30 miles. So he charged to 100 to prepare for a 30 mile trip. Why? Because he worries about charging.

I bought the car, in part, for the $7500 federal credit, and the $5000 dealer incentive, and the $2500 state rebate. It is also, currently, less expensive to operate the car on electricity than gas where I primarily operate the car.

By your standards, I should have bought a BEV. For the price, there isn’t a BEV or a PHEV that compares. And, I don’t live by your standards, feelings or opinions. You’ve completely misjudged how I operate the car. Why would I take your advice on which car to buy?